Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!newsfeed.eweka.nl!eweka.nl!feeder3.eweka.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.014 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'level,': 0.07; 'subject:How': 0.09; 'python': 0.09; '[1]:': 0.09; 'craft': 0.09; 'imports': 0.09; 'defer': 0.16; 'sadly': 0.16; 'third,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'stefan': 0.17; 'developer': 0.19; 'module': 0.19; 'import': 0.21; 'libraries': 0.22; 'required.': 0.22; "i've": 0.23; 'idea': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'developers': 0.26; '[2]': 0.27; 'library.': 0.27; 'transition': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.28; 'actual': 0.28; 'initial': 0.28; 'received:10.0.0': 0.28; 'toolkit': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'usually': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'point': 0.31; 'url:zope': 0.33; 'received:10.0': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'another': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'thanks': 0.34; 'direction': 0.35; 'said,': 0.35; 'doing': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'add': 0.36; 'michael': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'message- id:@gmail.com': 0.36; 'received:74.125': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'modules': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'well.': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'possible.': 0.38; 'url:docs': 0.38; 'received:10': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'header :Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'details': 0.63; 'other.': 0.64; 'carefully': 0.71; 'cycles.': 0.84; 'subject:improve': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer; bh=o1k4mIiXP4ZXvDH9x2pm822z6S+8/HKeqBdbE7rj4cQ=; b=N1C+Uork15GaAj44PT6BsWEmml00Ach4OhrIwyuVPBU7n/quGw6161FrGPlCkHoo23 FFxP5NM+cmRBkz7H5c/b++YCrWNnmJ537AMwlN3y29bPvVL2QFieo3OJYGY3VrRfCVZ1 lshoPyuGaZkNP9kMjkldark1ufaDhFU3wsbW/CCi0gH+A+pigK/Pg26lkD3PRPrzU3x4 Lj6f4xF7mW71UyvUqoM4jy67TZaZ0SZG+sLMg2CvBGhcs3Jf5DrETwIhKtUf68P4AyRJ xXZEC6qgrd3Xceh0TCU/mBdFKcMlAFqOzxpZ311DUJKN4bH5bMxQi6rwOe9xp3hiewC5 QJlg== From: Michael Schwarz Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2--34562038; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 Subject: Re: How to improve the usability of nested packages Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 10:26:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <5F9CBDF7-2142-4B4E-9EA8-4E1A10777FE5@epy.co.at> To: python-list@python.org References: <5F9CBDF7-2142-4B4E-9EA8-4E1A10777FE5@epy.co.at> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 81 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1351934797 news.xs4all.nl 6902 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:48525 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:32691 --Apple-Mail-2--34562038 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Stefan On 2012-W44-5, at 19:23, Stefan H. Holek wrote: > That said, there are ways to avoid import cycles. One is to very = carefully craft your modules so they do not have to import from each = other. Another is to not have imports at the module level, but move them = into the functions where they are required. I've also thought about that. I do not like the fact that I then need to = educate the other developers about minute details of the import = machinery just so they can add code to the library. I'm currently the = only developer doing actual work in Python and would like to make the = transition as painless as possible. > Third, large libraries like the Zope Toolkit usually have mechanisms = to defer imports to some point after initial loading. You may want = explore this direction as well. [2] Hmm, I like the idea but sadly it doesn't look very IDE-friendly. Thanks for your tips! Michael [1]: http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/codingstyle/python-style.html= --Apple-Mail-2--34562038 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFQjCCBT4w ggMmoAMCAQICAwrPojANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADB5MRAwDgYDVQQKEwdSb290IENBMR4wHAYDVQQL ExVodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNhY2VydC5vcmcxIjAgBgNVBAMTGUNBIENlcnQgU2lnbmluZyBBdXRob3Jp dHkxITAfBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWEnN1cHBvcnRAY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzAeFw0xMTEwMTAxMzQ1MDVaFw0x MzEwMDkxMzQ1MDVaMEIxGDAWBgNVBAMTD01pY2hhZWwgU2Nod2FyejEmMCQGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYX bWljaGkuc2Nod2FyekBnbWFpbC5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDA UvCv85S3/L+IJjn/3VTz5kf1afiAvb6UZHyQQ2eZr9HVvqjl9r4QUVbLohLPmLv3prwnFvVg3oOP mjGk6tbD4h4wxvz/y98FIBjQdK8Zb48gjoqunmLrzAWjYsBCkh29oe5gNlFkBuSOgTvQiuRYSuMA 6ftV/ss7FWfc1wM4dlTsK1GAfw7lChH0Mi9XW6izluY5ReWZ8tM9cRaHsf4SrDCDY7IJ/PxyHxYz wwH/mrDGBgqhkSASVuAMVgboQQX8B5Yhqbr0aODD3e03WOVjwn5fSVvWngzCtlbPncWUTw0sSI2z HxjQFd0ry8YYC+cURk4CnGqxdTJ5cZm0gXX/AgMBAAGjggEEMIIBADAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMFYG CWCGSAGG+EIBDQRJFkdUbyBnZXQgeW91ciBvd24gY2VydGlmaWNhdGUgZm9yIEZSRUUgaGVhZCBv dmVyIHRvIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuQ0FjZXJ0Lm9yZzBABgNVHSUEOTA3BggrBgEFBQcDBAYIKwYBBQUH AwIGCisGAQQBgjcKAwQGCisGAQQBgjcKAwMGCWCGSAGG+EIEATAyBggrBgEFBQcBAQQmMCQwIgYI KwYBBQUHMAGGFmh0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmNhY2VydC5vcmcwIgYDVR0RBBswGYEXbWljaGkuc2Nod2Fy ekBnbWFpbC5jb20wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADggIBAIcJY+RtmKxmpaUHVe5aTREziEixHvuSca5W tiQ25bg0Ui5h0UZNw5drI3wOKWObXEYru6XzG+AppBRpQKR7uwAePjz9S7m3eW2fZMpojjoAmCBv lWbZ+EQJYJ6ez4GnrDDL14FoyRw9Fo8BBG2ohdDtesqWdzoJg48XvWioGGEDh/7DSDepPcm0QVYZ GZfSI78VTblav/Lp0N43XP8rMcQMyqIBwdMpZhuNB2LNS44uwZOj7d3GZzvN753G2uMtOXtgQjGH 3WGy3ZMRnXsVmfxbwdsfoc8ieR1yN3+C2YEyt6LQDVt1irJm2mPwm4clicq++Iy/O8Ji1044Zy3t WaOCPBccsL+M3cxIWw0szVUUn0moNUSQ6J4R6jpmUuxQZkiVD5Dq+PV1fAim5banu83+2pz2DO3O 9Et6ZQElCoD/jpo2CiIvzfXcXwV1Q0QKq2E0YJC2YHyETkbfUeqBOHgb3EkY7nPE1HLr4iYwSjN3 VTS8OxnQW0f3Ek3dTuEx15tgGzHm2CpV5ZRye1u1xyFy+2pftMwU2M2fepiGmOycc919w70q8FWh 5k9r0P0Ttm5EoFslC8fdOkqyOyvxQ4TKpzDCKUgO/0mjGD5sg93hrM7NDpkNeGqg0VbrMtPgaDDx XB02dLODgTRyepUWMq5fK4AJO9fWBNwB7hpdRCYuMYIDMzCCAy8CAQEwgYAweTEQMA4GA1UEChMH Um9vdCBDQTEeMBwGA1UECxMVaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYWNlcnQub3JnMSIwIAYDVQQDExlDQSBDZXJ0 IFNpZ25pbmcgQXV0aG9yaXR5MSEwHwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhJzdXBwb3J0QGNhY2VydC5vcmcCAwrP ojAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBhzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEP Fw0xMjExMDMwOTI2MzNaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTM9YCJHmZxltNe4mUNfpVLgoonPjCBkQYJ KwYBBAGCNxAEMYGDMIGAMHkxEDAOBgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cu Y2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZQ0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQub3JnAgMKz6IwgZMGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMYGDoIGAMHkxEDAO BgNVBAoTB1Jvb3QgQ0ExHjAcBgNVBAsTFWh0dHA6Ly93d3cuY2FjZXJ0Lm9yZzEiMCAGA1UEAxMZ Q0EgQ2VydCBTaWduaW5nIEF1dGhvcml0eTEhMB8GCSqGSIb3DQEJARYSc3VwcG9ydEBjYWNlcnQu b3JnAgMKz6IwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEANe0VhXz8XmtB8TaoRHuKWRbL2lvH68fHW7G127V5 FkgFEXqyNh0ip4kGn+maZd2DtsJZHEdAvJwq3TETd1OHpXZI7VzMScRg/RThcvXOxTy1Xu2aCIia 8AMMk0NmKvPIrUJaXMNOZ4XNl25cdleYx+F/9QZ+BAIMvYHgJ8RKoITKa8/O+72owxGLkIAfC1kO tFT8KEKxqfW2BhydU9P1kSzqqSgOPvUJsJpLL746/rmYldkz0vVsao8UrsTIgYt3htIcxQjDbss+ jlGYvT5kV/PtNHs73XNEvZkfSRnY/h1fUCbo8hNnAeqzA56eTDD6vGi9H9+4EvlsAlt+SUDurgAA AAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-2--34562038--