Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'tkinter': 0.07; '*is*': 0.09; 'app,': 0.09; 'clean.': 0.09; 'debugging.': 0.09; 'excluding': 0.09; 'toolkit': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'gui': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; "wouldn't": 0.14; 'windows': 0.15; '(it': 0.16; '(use': 0.16; 'matters,': 0.16; 'on)': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'pygtk,': 0.16; 'scratch': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'tkinter.': 0.16; 'to:name:python list': 0.16; 'tweak': 0.16; 'wxpython': 0.16; '\xc2\xa0i': 0.16; 'thursday,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'app': 0.19; 'trying': 0.19; 'things.': 0.19; 'code,': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'stick': 0.24; 'why.': 0.24; 'looks': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; '>': 0.26; 'class.': 0.26; 'compiled': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'gets': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'fixed': 0.29; 'michael': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'generally': 0.29; 'xml': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'designer': 0.30; 'heading': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'program,': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'too.': 0.31; 'towards': 0.31; '(although': 0.31; 'markup': 0.31; 'sep': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'linux': 0.33; 'mac': 0.33; 'moment': 0.34; "i'd": 0.34; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'etc': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'adjust': 0.36; 'controls': 0.36; 'programming,': 0.36; 'right?': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'method': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'behind': 0.37; 'too': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'button': 0.38; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; '12,': 0.39; 'extremely': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'ago.': 0.61; 'managers': 0.61; 'numbers': 0.61; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.63; 'kind': 0.63; 'choose': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'design.': 0.68; 'designers': 0.74; 'layout.': 0.84; 'messed': 0.84; 'native.': 0.84; 'recompile': 0.84; 'good,': 0.91; 'whereas': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GhAxIxodjoARgBskXy/SEaoB0YwtKKnQDv4PIo0p12w=; b=IuyaxxoAS60ATR9SSSizf5pPh3Etq3qd15YSFCBJ8CDqClmLAzt9C8uKWPzlj2n+yY OZn5ovSFh+tZVCq/VptPlLQLWaQdadmHLA90KOvlN9muqeKvYz+gJW2KNYTFv+OfRtuP qyNkIQ619f9J2MlbhsX0uC5BGPKe+4aAWyEdjC2rR1MRUVc4pEj8nZxWdW/GKB4/BwkX MlBOYQIK+q7WBU8/VZEgkDEqlHvO4NggPxxHWmIeYOt+P3mc8zkPogHrATM3W+CtEfxI rHD10/vqyU1Nc5VJ5mGSZ9yuA8Gr/OeHJqSuJhHliO/qNzJ6KM9ltHUC1s+oa6D1/689 IAGQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnzZH9jXDQF/oYXC5n5z8Tstv8O86YCm+12hWCGKoe+dDkBqitXd8bE/Ebblly9RK+UeoAjoYzsqJn8AELWTNWJpmrOuYd6pHPB5OBpYfHXoCcdKlTxcx2qlByRoD0FAl4chtuy9sFRUCA5gbvXtcQrOiRGFw== X-Received: by 10.182.24.105 with SMTP id t9mr1974466obf.86.1379004709568; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:51:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.24.105 with SMTP id t9mr1974454obf.86.1379004709430; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:51:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1a8b14b3-85f3-4515-ba43-9b40e1a89f1d@googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:51:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Python GUI? From: Benjamin Kaplan To: Python List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2a330d9764604e6328d6e X-Junkmail-Whitelist: YES (by domain whitelist at mpv1.tis.cwru.edu) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 211 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1379004713 news.xs4all.nl 15895 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38255 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:54065 --001a11c2a330d9764604e6328d6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sep 12, 2013 9:06 AM, wrote: > > On Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05:14 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote: > > On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, eamonnrea@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to count that > > > > What do you mean? Gtk has a GUI designer too. what of it > > > > > I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like Tkinter. > > > > > I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over it. > > > > Not me. wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for me. Does it > > > > still use event numbers that you define? Shudder. > > > > Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most powerful and > > flexible. > > > > > Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(excluding > > > > > PyQT because it has a D&D designer >:( )? Is Tkinter really dead? > > > > > Should I stick with wxPython? > > I still don't understand why you are excluding Qt. All modern toolkits > > > > are heading towards imperative GUI design. With Gtk I use Glade and > > > > GtkBuilder. My GUI is in a nice XML file that gets loaded and > > > > manipulated by my python class. It's extremely clean. And in the case > > > > of compiled programming, you don't have to recompile just to tweak > > > > something like a layout. > > At the moment if someone were to come in from scratch and ask what GUI > > toolkit to use, I would answer Qt with PySide. It's the most > > cross-platform of all the toolkits, and it's one of the most mature. > > > > Gtk is also good, but Windows and Mac support is always lagging behind > > > > X11, and it's not as good at fitting into the native look and feel. > > > > Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a "flow" layout like JFrame, > > > > > whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native Mac App, > > > > > Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost identical, > > > > > right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D > > > > > > > > Possibly. I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders, etc to > > > > look more native. And all good toolkits give you layout managers so you > > > > never have to resort to fixed layouts. Qt's layout system is very > > > > different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use the Qt > > > > Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense. > > I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :( > > I don't like it when you can D&D to position things. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code, and have fun with the debugging. That's the best part about writing a program, in my opinion. I'm against D&D with programming, and I'm not sure why. > -- > There are gui designers for wx as well. Doesn't mean you ever have to use any of them (although I wouldn't want to write windows forms code by hand). I do find it generally nicer to work with the markup formats (xrc for wx, xaml for wpf, and so on) rather than trying to describe a gui in a programming language. The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks native on every platform while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native controls wherever possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS better, but your also more likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least from my experience from a few years ago. --001a11c2a330d9764604e6328d6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 12, 2013 9:06 AM, <eamonnr= ea@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:05:14 AM UTC+1, Michael Torrie wrote= :
> > On 09/11/2013 02:55 PM, ea= monnrea@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > PyQT -- You have a GUI designer, so I'm not going to cou= nt that
> >
> > What do you mean? =C2=A0Gtk has a GUI designer too. =C2=A0what of= it
> >
> > > I, personally, really like wxPython, but I also really like = Tkinter.
> >
> > > I've messed with PyGTK, but I'd choose wxPython over= it.
> >
> > Not me. =C2=A0wxWidgets' event model is way too MFC-esque for= me. =C2=A0Does it
> >
> > still use event numbers that you define? =C2=A0Shudder.
> >
> > Gtk and Qt's method of signals and slots is by far the most p= owerful and
> > flexible.
> >
> > > Have you got anything to say on what one I should be using(e= xcluding
> >
> > > PyQT because it has a D&D designer >:( )? Is Tkinter = really dead?
> >
> > > Should I stick with wxPython?
> > I still don't understand why you are excluding Qt. =C2=A0All = modern toolkits
> >
> > are heading towards imperative GUI design. =C2=A0With Gtk I use G= lade and
> >
> > GtkBuilder. =C2=A0My GUI is in a nice XML file that gets loaded a= nd
> >
> > manipulated by my python class. =C2=A0It's extremely clean. = =C2=A0And in the case
> >
> > of compiled programming, you don't have to recompile just to = tweak
> >
> > something like a layout.
> > At the moment if someone were to come in from scratch and ask wha= t GUI
> > toolkit to use, I would answer Qt with PySide. =C2=A0It's the= most
> > cross-platform of all the toolkits, and it's one of the most = mature.
> >
> > Gtk is also good, but Windows and Mac support is always lagging b= ehind
> >
> > X11, and it's not as good at fitting into the native look and= feel.
>
> > > Also, with wxPython, it has kind of a "flow" layou= t like JFrame,
> >
> > > whereas it will adjust it's layout to look like a native= Mac App,
> >
> > > Windows app or Linux App, correct? It'll look almost ide= ntical,
> >
> > > right? Not that it matters, I'm just curious! :D
> >
> >
> >
> > Possibly. =C2=A0I know Qt and Gtk both can flip the button orders= , etc to
> >
> > look more native. =C2=A0And all good toolkits give you layout man= agers so you
> >
> > never have to resort to fixed layouts. =C2=A0Qt's layout syst= em is very
> >
> > different than Gtk's, but once you get the feel of it (use th= e Qt
> >
> > Designer program!), it makes a lot of sense.
>
> I didn't realise GTK has a GUI designer too :(
>
> I don't like it when you can D&D to position things. I don'= ;t understand why someone wouldn't want to write the positioning code, = and have fun with the debugging. That's the best part about writing a p= rogram, in my opinion. I'm against D&D with programming, and I'= m not sure why.
> --
>

There are gui designers for wx as well. Doesn't mean you= ever have to use any of them (although I wouldn't want to write window= s forms code by hand). I do find it generally nicer to work with the markup= formats (xrc for wx, xaml for wpf, and so on) rather than trying to descri= be a gui in a programming language.

The main difference between wx and qt is that qt looks nativ= e on every platform while wx *is* native on every platform (it uses native = controls wherever possible). This means that wx integrates into the OS bett= er, but your also more likely to need OS-specific tweaks in wx, at least fr= om my experience from a few years ago.

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