Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.024 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'club.': 0.09; 'governments': 0.09; 'received:openend.se': 0.09; 'received:theraft.openend.se': 0.09; 'spreading': 0.09; 'that).': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.10; "'to": 0.16; 'browsers.': 0.16; 'cc:addr:lac': 0.16; 'cc:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'decent': 0.16; 'from:addr:lac': 0.16; 'from:addr:openend.se': 0.16; 'from:name:laura creighton': 0.16; 'goal,': 0.16; 'message- id:@fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'received:89.233': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217': 0.16; 'received:89.233.217.133': 0.16; 'received:fido': 0.16; 'received:fido.openend.se': 0.16; 'systematic': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.16; 'laura': 0.18; 'windows': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.21; 'cc:2**1': 0.22; 'bit': 0.23; '2015': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; 'other,': 0.29; 'received:se': 0.29; 'subject:other': 0.29; 'cc:no real name:2**1': 0.29; 'there.': 0.30; 'supposed': 0.31; 'run': 0.32; 'especially': 0.32; 'up.': 0.32; 'says': 0.32; 'subject:all': 0.32; 'point': 0.33; 'point,': 0.33; 'drop': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'done': 0.35; 'skip:> 10': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'really': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'being': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'basic': 0.36; 'child': 0.36; 'quite': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.37; 'doing': 0.38; 'is,': 0.38; 'wanted': 0.39; 'goes': 0.39; 'things': 0.39; 'some': 0.40; 'even': 0.61; 'real': 0.61; 'skip:u 10': 0.62; 'header :Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'more': 0.62; 'national': 0.63; 'act': 0.63; 'great': 0.64; 'other.': 0.64; 'everybody': 0.67; 'business': 0.69; 'helping': 0.71; 'country': 0.74; 'subject:have': 0.80; 'received:89': 0.80; 'applicants.': 0.84; 'crime.': 0.84; 'cuts': 0.84; 'dead.': 0.84; 'perceive': 0.84; 'stalin': 0.84; 'subject:you': 0.88; 'stamp': 0.91; 'club,': 0.93 To: Marko Rauhamaa cc: python-list@python.org, lac@openend.se From: Laura Creighton Subject: Re: Ah Python, you have spoiled me for all other languages In-Reply-To: Message from Marko Rauhamaa of "Mon, 25 May 2015 09:57:28 +0300." <87mw0tb0vb.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> References: <555f440a$0$12990$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <555FA253.3020304@tundraware.com> <87382nmpkd.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <556087ee$0$13004$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87siankzfk.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <5561a74b$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87fv6mj8sr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87mw0tb0vb.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <31553.1432546764.1@fido> Date: Mon, 25 May 2015 11:39:24 +0200 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.3.9 (theraft.openend.se [89.233.217.130]); Mon, 25 May 2015 11:39:27 +0200 (CEST) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1432546777 news.xs4all.nl 2856 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35925 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:91196 In a message of Mon, 25 May 2015 09:57:28 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa writes: >Certificates can be revoked, kinda, yes. Or more to the point, >roadblocks could be put in the way of certifying some applicants. >However, if that started happening, the OS and browser makers would >simply drop the obnoxious government from the prestigious club. It >really wouldn't be in their interests to start acting up. ' Unfortunately, you cannot count on governments giving two hoots about what you and I perceive as their interests. Josef Stalin would just go off and kill OS and browser makers in his country until he got things the way he wanted it. A US government more subservient to big business could declare, for reasons of patriotism, national security, and the ever popular 'to stop child pornography' that we all have to use Windows software and run Microsoft browsers. These are really bad ideas, even from the point of view of the governments involved -- it would not accomplish anything like it was supposed to accomplish (unless spreading fear and terror is the real goal, in which case it might work great for that). But having really bad ideas and being willing to act on them is one of the characteristics of the sort of obnoxious government we would like to drop from the club, so no joy there. What people need to understand is that unless you want to stamp out freedom altogether, there will be crime. You cannot have one without the other, because all crime is, is 'somebody doing something that some other people have said they are not allowed to do'. You can have quite a bit of crime without destroying the basic decent kindness that most people have for each other. Everybody says 'tisk tisk' and goes on helping each other and being decent to each other. But systematic oppression, especially state-advocated opression done by the state cuts to the heart of things and kills such goodwill and spontaneous kindness dead. Laura