Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'interpreter': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'computed': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'interpreter,': 0.09; 'am,': 0.12; 'received:209.85.210.174': 0.13; 'received:mail-iy0-f174.google.com': 0.13; 'cell.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'ook': 0.16; 'mon,': 0.16; 'language,': 0.17; 'language': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'purposes.': 0.23; 'code': 0.25; 'all,': 0.28; 'language.': 0.28; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'nov': 0.29; 'kinda': 0.30; 'useless': 0.30; 'does': 0.32; 'yet': 0.32; 'pretty': 0.32; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.34; 'anything': 0.34; 'however,': 0.36; 'but': 0.37; 'machine': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'another': 0.37; 'steven': 0.38; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'useful': 0.38; "it's": 0.40; 'received:209': 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'more': 0.61; '2011': 0.61; '10:55': 0.84; 'cell,': 0.84; 'subject:Reference': 0.84; 'forward,': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=0kPl12CUcgZyukxkEQX/+yRP4ePi2orrLq70PMGE3i8=; b=h65XHd+g03FjgmprfmPj1ON7LEkfddWejMOo4IHnA0x05Co7kexpuwmlqbOGlU33wz HiDYrCrOqFCsAyv/7zt2PHPlmzHleMFsv1P1oPTWC1d4QNb6g+xug0EsUBCwN6NnamTr YVAkvBtIoAOych/HgF9UA1qA/UPAhr+pI9rZc= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <79379487-0081-4067-92ed-c6717652e1ff@y7g2000vbe.googlegroups.com> <4eb0af60-26b3-45d5-8aff-566505003d6a@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com> <4ed2cddc$0$29988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:26:17 +1100 Subject: Re: Using the Python Interpreter as a Reference From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1322439980 news.xs4all.nl 6921 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:51607 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:16302 On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > What does it mean to say that a language is "small"? > > A Turing Machine is a pretty small language, with only a few > instructions: step forward, step backwards, erase a cell, write a cell, > branch on the state of the cell. And yet anything that can be computed, > anything at all, can be computed by a Turning Machine... Ook has only three tokens (okay, it's a derivative of BrainF** so it kinda has eight, but they're implemented on three). It's Turing-complete, but it is so small as to be useless for any practical purposes. The ONLY way to use Ook for any useful code would be to write an interpreter for another language in it, and use that other language. However, Ook can be proven to be flawless, as can an Ook interpreter, much more easily than a full-featured language like Python or C. ChrisA