Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'explicitly': 0.05; '*not*': 0.07; 'assignment': 0.07; 'correct.': 0.07; 'distributing': 0.07; 'gpl': 0.07; 'modify': 0.07; 'modifying': 0.07; 'puts': 0.07; 'pypi': 0.07; 'subject:code': 0.07; 'acceptance': 0.09; 'correct,': 0.09; 'subject:using': 0.09; "they've": 0.09; 'violates': 0.09; 'waived': 0.09; 'works.': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; '"mark': 0.16; '>>': 0.16; "(i'm": 0.16; '(note': 0.16; '12:50': 0.16; 'afterwards': 0.16; 'attaching': 0.16; 'away).': 0.16; 'freely,': 0.16; 'grant.': 0.16; 'janssen': 0.16; 'license.': 0.16; 'licenses,': 0.16; 'merely': 0.16; 'modify,': 0.16; 'personal,': 0.16; 'preserved': 0.16; 'preserving': 0.16; 'program),': 0.16; 'pypi.': 0.16; 'waive': 0.16; 'applies': 0.16; 'proprietary': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '(not': 0.18; 'cc:addr:gmail.com': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'putting': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**1': 0.23; '\xa0if': 0.24; '(or': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; '>': 0.26; 'permission': 0.26; 'distribute': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'michael': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'court': 0.30; 'restrict': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'software,': 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; 'too.': 0.31; '(unless': 0.31; 'another.': 0.31; 'disclosing': 0.31; 'encouraged': 0.31; 'purely': 0.31; 'terms.': 0.31; 'violation': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'stuff': 0.32; 'run': 0.32; 'running': 0.33; 'entirely': 0.33; 'not.': 0.33; 'copying': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'except': 0.35; 'beyond': 0.35; 'case,': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'opposed': 0.36; 'so,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'easily': 0.37; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'actions': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'legally': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'free': 0.61; 'skip:* 10': 0.61; 'course': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'making': 0.63; 'protection': 0.63; 'term': 0.63; 'myself': 0.63; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'therefore,': 0.64; 'love': 0.65; 'granted': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'license': 0.66; 'subject': 0.69; 'prohibited': 0.69; 'stated': 0.69; 'legal': 0.71; 'money': 0.72; 'protect': 0.79; 'forth': 0.81; 'technically': 0.84; '\xa0but': 0.84; 'use"': 0.91; 'use"': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=yaEgC7DFQ4aYLC1NrHHpc7Msr/OGsHZItxcW9ozOKXA=; b=DwURrCLFbyAxG+Uu7qZEGttRI6oADi7avJUlD+KUb5kGOaMS5vBa3Fniw4FdpDMq9F w0yVSk+Ur094NCFacGrBF2qXNG7Z9KJneVLt576i0Ijlbr8YR6ySvI8+tnKATFQUSztV VEgbL+Bd5NZ8V8W7GMAzwAupf9BTmOkaEa2DlUdY92FVao9Fl0+W8BLeCefNO57vZA31 f4z2RrgDZ/IfwEPAz0UdIYg3Z0xAe/dur+76mhFoXFy3YX6Pz/8yBgICOxbuxXWg2tkY Ymrwf8hlWQICGNekIgTbijuLUe8j0XA6G//p+sP/TVlq109M7pFyuVeNyzIFebWYBChB 4LCA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.106.195 with SMTP id y3mr9678756qao.35.1370810589818; Sun, 09 Jun 2013 13:43:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51B450C1.5030506@berlin.de> <51B4DCA2.9000903@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 21:43:09 +0100 Subject: Re: Re-using copyrighted code From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Santos?= To: Mark Janssen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3074b33a42b57604debeb61e Cc: Michael Torrie , python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 148 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1370810600 news.xs4all.nl 15996 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60378 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:47493 --20cf3074b33a42b57604debeb61e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 9 Jun 2013 21:39, "Mark Janssen" wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Michael Torrie wrote: > > On 06/09/2013 11:18 AM, Mark Janssen wrote: > >> You actually do not. Attaching a legal document is purely a secondary > >> protection from those who would take away right already granted by US > >> copyright. > > > > You are correct, except that the OP has already stated he wishes to have > > his code distributed. Without granting a license, the code cannot be > > distributed beyond the people he personally gives the code too. PyPi > > cannot legally allow others to download it without a license. > > That's not entirely correct. If he *publishes* his code (I'm using > this term "publish" technically to mean "put forth in a way where > anyone of the general public can or is encouraged to view"), then he > is *tacitly* giving up protections that secrecy (or *not* disclosing > it) would *automatically* grant. The only preserved right is > authorship after that. So it can be re-distributed freely, if > authorship is preserved. The only issue after that is "fair use" and > that includes running the program (not merely copying the source). > > Re-selling for money violates fair-use, as does redistribution without > preserving credit assignment (unless they've naively waived those > rights away). I will have to take a look at PyPi. But if you are > *publishing*, there's no court which can protect your IP afterwards > from redistribution, unless you explicitly *restrict* it. In which > case, if you restrict terms of re-use, you're putting the court in > jeopardy because you making two actions opposed to one another. The > only thing the court can easily uphold is your authorship and > non-exploitation from a violation of fair-use (note again the key word > is "use", nor merely copying the code). But then if you waive *that* > right away, you put the court in jeopardy again. > > > Here's how the GPL puts it, and of course this applies to any and all > > licenses, even proprietary ones: > > > > "However, nothing else [besides the License] grants you permission to > > modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions > > are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by > > modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the > > Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, and all > > its terms and conditions for copying..." > > Well this is where one must make a distinction with fair-use -- if I > re-publish my modifications then the code is still subject to the > terms by the original author. If I make a copy for myself and run the > problem for personal, non-commercial use, then I am in the domain of > fair use and have no other obligations. > This sort of complicated stuff is why I love the wtfpl. If it's free software, it's free to use, distribute and modify, not free under a huge amount of terms. --20cf3074b33a42b57604debeb61e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 9 Jun 2013 21:39, "Mark Janssen" <dreamingforward@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 06/09/2013 11:18 AM, Mark Janssen wrote:
> >> You actually do not. =A0Attaching a legal document is purely = a secondary
> >> protection from those who would take away right already grant= ed by US
> >> copyright.
> >
> > You are correct, except that the OP has already stated he wishes = to have
> > his code distributed. Without granting a license, the code cannot= be
> > distributed beyond the people he personally gives the code too. = =A0PyPi
> > cannot legally allow others to download it without a license.
>
> That's not entirely correct. =A0If he *publishes* his code (I'= m using
> this term "publish" technically to mean "put forth in a= way where
> anyone of the general public can or is encouraged to view"), then= he
> is *tacitly* giving up protections that secrecy (or *not* disclosing > it) would *automatically* grant. =A0The only preserved right is
> authorship after that. =A0 So it can be re-distributed freely, if
> authorship is preserved. =A0The only issue after that is "fair us= e" and
> that includes running the program (not merely copying the source).
>
> Re-selling for money violates fair-use, as does redistribution without=
> preserving credit assignment (unless they've naively waived those<= br> > rights away). =A0I will have to take a look at =A0PyPi. =A0But if you = are
> *publishing*, there's no court which can protect your IP afterward= s
> from redistribution, unless you explicitly *restrict* it. =A0In which<= br> > case, if you restrict terms of re-use, you're putting the court in=
> jeopardy because you making two actions opposed to one another. =A0The=
> only thing the court can easily uphold is your authorship and
> non-exploitation from a violation of fair-use (note again the key word=
> is "use", nor merely copying the code). =A0But then if you w= aive *that*
> right away, you put the court in jeopardy again.
>
> > Here's how the GPL puts it, and of course this applies to any= and all
> > licenses, even proprietary ones:
> >
> > "However, nothing else [besides the License] grants you perm= ission to
> > modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These a= ctions
> > are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License. Therefor= e, by
> > modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the > > Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so, = and all
> > its terms and conditions for copying..."
>
> Well this is where one must make a distinction with fair-use -- if I > re-publish my modifications then the code is still subject to the
> terms by the original author. =A0If I make a copy for myself and run t= he
> problem for personal, non-commercial use, then I am in the domain of > fair use and have no other obligations.
>

This sort of complicated stuff is why I love the wtfpl. If i= t's free software, it's free to use, distribute and modify, not fre= e under a huge amount of terms.

--20cf3074b33a42b57604debeb61e--