Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!bcyclone01.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone01.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: UNSURE 0.203 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.60; '*S*': 0.00; '(except': 0.05; 'english,': 0.09; 'preferable': 0.09; 'wed,': 0.15; 'boolean': 0.16; 'hand?': 0.16; 'imo,': 0.16; 'parentheses': 0.16; 'readable': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'nested': 0.18; '>>>': 0.20; '2015': 0.20; "aren't": 0.22; 'sep': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'example': 0.26; 'error': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'correct': 0.28; 'function': 0.28; 'about.': 0.29; 'equally': 0.29; 'raise': 0.29; 'typically': 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'you?': 0.30; 'error.': 0.31; 'especially': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; 'problem': 0.33; 'case,': 0.34; 'correctly': 0.34; 'gets': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'thought': 0.37; 'things': 0.38; 'no,': 0.38; 'drop': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'unable': 0.39; 'easily': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'avoid': 0.61; 'personally': 0.61; '30,': 0.63; 'relatively': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'between': 0.65; 'brain': 0.66; 'difficulty': 0.66; "they're": 0.66; '(is': 0.84; 'compose': 0.84; 'conditions,': 0.84; 'function)': 0.84; 'maths': 0.84; 'mirrors': 0.84; 'subject:value': 0.84; 'to:name:python': 0.84; '(ii)': 0.91; 'edwards': 0.91; 'prone': 0.91; 'subject:Check': 0.95 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=u4Y7g5EN1SbCUqmc+ce2kq0ivvQfK52RMi+l1CRdYzg=; b=1H0OQRGthbmRXL4nZSTPa3n79LDYmlpYY1j/CcG1M3sCubdd9ORQsC1L0SUmWVy0Fv 0xMBFJzkIIWDpgbJzCWp2h1jnhDqaNy2wRqHx31T5wjUVMnx5zxO/NtkgTU/wfvmTuKS joCmdLy/U9UjU6OaclSY7mUyTlba5scujITorNPrDwCiAAS0hTZFX89HDFKyaSlXMUar 8CKShD2K763giGUZMjgajDUCTVYX73AVEYzuQ14g7b1NSqxjcro4xTybvHQzSQ/JbjsL i3Qvw07qVaQktikyb4fyTKQ++Ltda1tn9sJQ+vlXaebjYnZqaCSs+8tds+ZbAQ8rvd00 iVDw== X-Received: by 10.129.101.11 with SMTP id z11mr4906671ywb.85.1443646047971; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:47:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <87si5v3hpx.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> From: Ian Kelly Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:46:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Check if a given value is out of certain range To: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Oct 2015 09:18:58 +0200 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1443683939 news.xs4all.nl 23819 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 5776 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1119571348 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:97268 On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:19 PM, alister wrote: > On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 21:06:02 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >> Grant Edwards : >> >>> not (0 <= x <= 10) (I) >>> [...] >>> (x < 0) or (x > 10) (II) >>> [...] >>> IMO, (I) is _more_ readable than (II) >> >> IMO, they're equally readable (except that you should drop the redundant >> parentheses from (II)). >> >> >> Marko > > both are correct > the problem with 1 is the human brain is not particularity good with > negatives*. > to do not (some function) you first of all have to work out some function > & then invert it, a computer does this without difficulty the human brain > gets confused which is why I personally consider ii is more readable > (YMMV especially if you are working with Boolean maths regularly) this > example is relatively simple as things get more complex they become more > error prone error. To me, the negative of one condition (is x in this range) is more easily processable than the disjunction of two conditions that together compose the real, more easily understood condition (is x outside this range). I find it preferable to avoid nested conditions, not negated conditions, and (II) has more nesting than (I). Thought mirrors language. In English, we typically would say "x is not between 0 and 10", not "x is either less than 0 or greater than 10". > *as an example you brain cannot correctly process the following. > > Not (think of your left toe) > > you are now thinking about it aren't you? No, it made me think about thinking. I barely even registered the phrase "left toe", much less thought about that. In any case, that's more an issue of being unable to control what you're thinking about. If I instruct you, "don't raise your right hand", do you then automatically raise your right hand?