Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.dougwise.org!news-transit.tcx.org.uk!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.03; 'received:209.85.212.46': 0.03; 'received:mail- vw0-f46.google.com': 0.03; 'fashion.': 0.07; 'pretend': 0.07; 'kelly': 0.09; 'machines.': 0.09; 'restriction': 0.09; 'solaris,': 0.09; 'tends': 0.09; 'pm,': 0.11; 'linux': 0.11; 'am,': 0.14; 'users,': 0.14; 'wrote:': 0.14; 'browsers.': 0.16; 'data...': 0.16; 'measured': 0.16; 'subject:versus': 0.16; 'url:cx': 0.16; '\xa0in': 0.16; 'subject:] ': 0.16; 'users.': 0.18; 'versions': 0.18; 'tue,': 0.20; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.20; 'usage': 0.20; 'not.': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.22; 'ancient': 0.23; 'happen.': 0.23; 'version.': 0.23; 'runs': 0.24; 'url:wiki': 0.24; 'received:209.85.212': 0.25; 'windows': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'bound': 0.29; 'consistently': 0.29; 'toward': 0.29; 'probably': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; "won't": 0.30; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.31; 'redhat': 0.31; 'url:shtml': 0.31; 'data,': 0.31; 'determine': 0.31; 'someone': 0.33; 'bit': 0.33; 'sometimes': 0.33; 'using': 0.34; 'there': 0.35; 'url:en': 0.35; 'accurate': 0.35; 'subject:software': 0.35; 'websites,': 0.35; 'doing': 0.36; 'allow': 0.36; 'rather': 0.36; 'getting': 0.36; 'report': 0.37; 'data': 0.37; 'some': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.37; 'apr': 0.38; 'logging': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; 'but': 0.38; 'url:org': 0.38; 'cc:2**1': 0.38; 'unless': 0.38; 'to.': 0.39; 'set': 0.39; 'likely': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'would': 0.40; "it's": 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'managing': 0.61; '2011': 0.62; 'sites': 0.62; 'internet': 0.62; 'lower': 0.63; 'cost': 0.63; 'computers': 0.64; 'covering': 0.64; 'perfectly': 0.65; 'here': 0.65; 'companies': 0.66; 'fund': 0.66; 'benefit': 0.66; 'share': 0.67; 'sales': 0.69; 'thousands': 0.69; 'subject:Free': 0.72; 'census': 0.84; 'measuring': 0.84; '\xa0but': 0.84; '\xa0of': 0.84; 'browsers': 0.93; 'ranging': 0.95 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MEILNa48Zl1BP+RAQESoPXqIB28ZxkLGlp1QWnpsWhc=; b=Od+cwK9sv8AWnbXXJ61VM22/HUWHTClWdNdvQR4IbiGTErjpyswsc/ZX1txkpQ5Wwl CZInt8jc7CF38l/SUShrGLLn3io5OKcdFu1YVB7VJSFsVvwOOCAPutc9bB3RvIPhIj// bzzIyBhGoeEAfS93yx/HO6tNaEHoFHL2DtSv0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=NmM/RWDllQFsXj6RFFBaXMI4j5zeCm0Lo00W2H/D+hNOEVELktt1UE284Z3d9iPBBp mEeWY8EcGYVh2m0G2X2x2wPKXJmlTJp2ek6NyDZLvytyklry1gzgohxD+HUl282OvPkZ 5u8L/QcTyOAM0uAbSnl7zv1yJJ2WCB9Xh6LsA= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <4d9c5ca5$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87tyebf3r3.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> <4d9d6a4a$0$29992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <6Nknp.10080$lx3.7480@newsfe02.iad> <4d9e6551$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4da0f1e1$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:51:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [OT] Free software versus software idea patents From: Dan Stromberg To: Ian Kelly Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: python-list@python.org, harrismh777 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.94.164.166 X-Trace: 1302641470 news.xs4all.nl 41103 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:40811 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:3088 On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Ian Kelly wrote: > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 3:22 AM, harrismh777 wr= ote: >> It is not measured in any way, and it is almost impossible to determine = therefore in any accurate fashion. There >> really are no data... what we need here is a census of sorts. > > There is at least one method of measuring it without resorting to > sales figures: logging user-agent data from web browsers. =A0Is it > perfectly accurate? =A0Of course not. =A0But there are a number of > different organizations that do this, sampling hundreds of thousands > of different websites, and they consistently report that the various > versions of Windows have a total usage share ranging from 80% to 90%. > That at least gives us an upper and lower bound with a great deal of > confidence. =A0In the same data, Apple systems range from about 7% to > 15%, and Linux musters a meager 1% to 3%. This data is of course skewed a bit toward computers that people are using web browsers on. Also, something like LWN tends to get more Linux users, while microsoft.com tends to get more windows users. Also, some sites only allow IE (often for rather capricious reasons), so some *ix users tell their browsers to pretend to be IE to get around the restriction - and sometimes it's just easier to pretend to be IE all the time, even when you don't really need to. And IE runs on Solaris, albeit in what is probably now an ancient version. A better measure would probably come from getting various companies managing various links of the internet backbone to set up passive fingerprinting machines. The cost of covering such links would probably be minimal, and the performance impact likely zippo, but the companies doing the work would probably not benefit much - so unless someone like Redhat or Canonical, or even Apple step up and fund it, it probably won't happen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP/IP_stack_fingerprinting http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/p0f.shtml