Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <rosuav@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.069
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.86; '*S*': 0.00; 'shipped': 0.05; 'deadlines': 0.07; 'wednesday,': 0.07; 'subject: [': 0.09; 'testers.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'bug': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'choice,': 0.16; 'chris,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'subject:"]': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'things.': 0.19; 'subject:problem': 0.24; 'test.': 0.24; 'source': 0.25; 'developing': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'testing': 0.29; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'allows': 0.31; 'fri,': 0.33; 'period': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'maybe': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'subject:with': 0.35; 'display': 0.35; 'johnson': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'two': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'bad': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'tell': 0.60; "you're": 0.61; 'you.': 0.62; 'real': 0.63; 'subject:The': 0.64; 'taking': 0.65; 'life': 0.66; 'between': 0.67; 'yes': 0.68; 'past.': 0.68; 'skill': 0.68; 'intelligent': 0.74; 'amazed': 0.84; 'balance,': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'doubling': 0.91; 'rick': 0.93; '2013': 0.98
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=hZqO+FbGVyzydOmzvpU6iEjNlrBNdPq7IWUoSegZ2qI=; b=w1KhbYq5xz0LsQHW4k+G7ngoWcObrMVq33Fgvb57VLJ6zxxKOqk32R6+4e5V343WMA cHEN0JI8pBZzzQs9BaAgVcHgcpZ0IlR+4ybhdBVkwKQQwfeg/1+mp3UNzde4Z1Su55RL 15PcPww40mQJBdVWtKjB4PghO5NRxiPwCQ6qk5JChzh4WV3YlTTCpjuSThxOl/XtCkil miJ1bDGeCkQ7inB5NxbW9NhMcIQIXrpDwA04m/4x53eh6ja/twXha+/EGuI45ymkc+SB XG3adSkcMNeSY2wIOT2ilsoBshqyxYROtPw36vacneknkxKt2AWVXVBuJaa0yA3gLWzP 0Hng==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.52.65.238 with SMTP id a14mr18805658vdt.24.1370534414145; Thu, 06 Jun 2013 09:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <cc573290-85c5-40be-9631-b06678505af5@googlegroups.com>
References: <687dea63-84da-4c45-9366-cb5a10665d1f@googlegroups.com> <51ab95d5$0$29966$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <a46a1835-9960-4cc3-b15e-7c027f054919@googlegroups.com> <51ad7daf$0$11118$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <c694719e-03d7-485c-a88b-0a7770d4d133@googlegroups.com> <c70964e8-059e-4b19-b822-d54250ea2118@googlegroups.com> <mailman.2708.1370422741.3114.python-list@python.org> <31ca14e1-973d-44e6-886c-011a55755d76@googlegroups.com> <mailman.2747.1370451556.3114.python-list@python.org> <cc573290-85c5-40be-9631-b06678505af5@googlegroups.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 02:00:14 +1000
Subject: Re: Bools and explicitness [was Re: PyWart: The problem with "print"]
From: Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
To: python-list@python.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.2813.1370534423.3114.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 29
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1370534423 news.xs4all.nl 15989 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42396
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:47239

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Rick Johnson
<rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2013 11:59:07 AM UTC-5, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> Frankly, I don't think the language much matters. It's all
>> down to the skill of the programmers and testers. Ada
>> wasn't the source of the problem unless Ada has a bug in
>> it... which is going to be true of pretty much any
>> language. Maybe Python would be a better choice, maybe
>> not; but let me tell you this, if the choice of language
>> means the difference between testable in three months and
>> testable code in three years, I'm going for the former.
>
> Yes EVEN IF life or property hangs in the balance, the only important decision is how much work YOU will be required to do -- Chris, why i am not amazed by this bombastic display of selfishness?

I would like to say that you're not amazed because you're intelligent
enough to understand what I was saying, but I'm not sure it'd be true.

Let me spell it out for you.

* Deadlines are real things. They make a very audible "whooosh" as they go past.
* If the time frame for developing this is five years, then in five
years, the code must either be shipped or scrapped.
* Taking three years to get to a testable codebase allows two years to test.
* Taking three months to get testable allows over four years to test.

Would you say that doubling the testing period is a good thing or a bad thing?

ChrisA