Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!goblin1!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed1.swip.net!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.012 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'javascript,': 0.07; '"if': 0.09; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'sucks': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'fits': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'obviously': 0.18; 'mon,': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; '(on': 0.31; 'assumes': 0.31; "they'll": 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'guess': 0.33; 'subject: (': 0.35; 'except': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'nov': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'bad': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'new': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; "you'll": 0.62; 'become': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'great': 0.65; 'designers': 0.74; 'borrow': 0.84; 'change?': 0.84; 'hardly': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Nvb21kgEE6iFB3/TzfdqMoBuHjaDldBDn5mKWmDODcA=; b=Sou9lwhpvrSDVksGw1JVWjr/vDcD0NF1kQMW+5zmbcZi6o2ctO9uyLfoQRL9HFDMLu lPFtsSZzmxHKiGwmKXLUhDsC13r2pdmOY+10q+E0M+hYH6qEZYTMDT5EdXn1VTKg3Hok YDSWKJ33HE/3uZLr9B/b6bHyhvqcacORY7YTp1JoZJ9xLf1r3SBt3l2SiArQPOitw6wv SXBfLUxpZwnOsrkstg3wPlaZweA3rblKwlD3q0XrK2Q19I9vb6I252cM3b3JDdGFPZF1 xaIGv/AU/ZI1kjTadxZGm+YjO8pRks/PZVyhS4i35vXJZQ3ZZs1lSt5hnARxKfiFUjSK UjZw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.129.201 with SMTP id ny9mr10888167pbb.70.1384735367425; Sun, 17 Nov 2013 16:42:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:42:47 +1100 Subject: Re: Oh look, another language (ceylon) From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1384735375 news.xs4all.nl 15901 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45487 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:59818 On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Mark Lawrence wrote: > >> As a rule of thumb people don't like change? This obviously assumes that >> language designers are people :) > > > That's probably true (on both counts). > > I guess this means we need to encourage more > Pythoneers to become language designers! Easy! Just make Python really bad in every way except syntax. Then people will be constantly thinking "If only Python were more X and less Y... great syntax but the language sucks in so many ways!" and they'll borrow the syntax into their new languages. If you're setting out to create a new language, you probably want it to be "Foo, except X" for some Foo and X. So you'll keep everything about Foo that doesn't conflict with your changes. I would expect to see Python-like syntax in a language that's designed to be "Python, except compilable to C for performance"... and whaddayaknow, Cython fits that description. Thing is, Python is just so much better than (C, C#, JavaScript, Java) that there's hardly as much impetus to create a new language. ChrisA