Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.023 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'restful': 0.09; 'yeah,': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'suggest': 0.15; 'wed,': 0.15; 'api,': 0.16; 'denying': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'java.': 0.16; 'mistake.': 0.16; 'scripting.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'skip': 0.18; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; "we'd": 0.21; '3.x': 0.22; 'browsers': 0.22; 'sep': 0.22; 'code,': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'supported': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'dramatic': 0.29; 'usable': 0.29; 'system,': 0.30; 'creating': 0.30; "can't": 0.32; 'point': 0.33; 'downloading': 0.33; 'shift': 0.33; 'skip:j 20': 0.33; 'running': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'level': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'no,': 0.38; 'anything': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'software': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'engine': 0.62; 'today': 0.65; 'stand': 0.67; 'worth': 0.67; 'overcome': 0.72; 'adoption': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'client-side': 0.84; 'figueiredo': 0.84; 'importance.': 0.84; 'mario': 0.84; 'simple:': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=yzSjQRvPmMLEBeOyLomZMN2lIBQSh+DWrxtkr0L/Zc0=; b=g65aAe+V8BUWEhhnmyhsCkitZNBFzo/LPnl3yD0fvVYR1fcsre0pgXZW/K5Ef0vFH0 HmnPyn+vfe2x2iKphc/S3JCQT/9/Uv1bWzuqfYB9t0e7mIafq9VrgB14qw4fGgNZUQpK Lh5flda0TGW5w0rk/S0BCXg5ZfD/jDnKSBASuytRiDTv7dscefvS9hzZBXTq1tD7dcV9 /aAvEMSzJLPxoqFMrfZd/63OeEnzuoFhc4EoU+T+zISQ4SStMocht1IkKYW9GQmKFhOR sQ+zG4oKb/ctXhVonfTjxjQhhfMM60gr0DZPbICpWOW8h/tIG7wDjiDJ8iGED0MaCN31 RmhA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.41.142 with SMTP id p136mr43741658iop.19.1441767821950; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55EF9CBB.4070809@gmx.com> References: <86fa425b-d660-45ba-b0f7-3beebdec8e14@googlegroups.com> <55EE9EEC.1060907@rece.vub.ac.be> <55EEDD37.5090602@gmx.com> <55EF86BA.4050502@gmx.com> <85y4gg8js0.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <55EF9CBB.4070809@gmx.com> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 13:03:41 +1000 Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1441767830 news.xs4all.nl 23816 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46768 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 4953 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1997336018 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96157 On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Mario Figueiredo wrote: > I can't stand Java. I just don't think calling it a mistake. It's worth has > been proven by its level of adoption and by the usable software that has > been made with it. Javascript/ECMAScript is criticized by so many and yet > there's no denying of its importance. Even today we struggle to find a > better alternative to client-side scripting. Yeah, the reason for that is simple: anything else adds (sometimes massive) overhead. Would you suggest creating a client/server architecture, a RESTful API, and a triple-redundant HTTPS+SSL+Blowfish security system, to enumerate files on your hard drive? No, you'd just use ls(1). In the same way, there's not a lot of point downloading megs and megs of PyPyJS engine before running a single line of code, when you could skip that and just write in JS. Before Python can be "a better alternative", it has to overcome this massive hump. If Python 3.x were as well supported by web browsers as ECMAScript 5.x is, I think we'd see a dramatic shift in usage. But it ain't, so we won't. ChrisA