Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder3.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.049 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.90; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'syntax': 0.03; 'output': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'bash': 0.07; 'filename': 0.07; 'python': 0.09; 'abstraction': 0.09; 'assembler': 0.09; 'calculating': 0.09; 'developer?': 0.09; 'doubles': 0.09; 'input,': 0.09; 'scripts,': 0.09; 'sure,': 0.09; 'programmer': 0.11; 'dummy': 0.16; 'fancy': 0.16; 'fetches': 0.16; 'fires': 0.16; 'leakage': 0.16; 'send.': 0.16; 'sense,': 0.16; 'so!': 0.16; 'soap,': 0.16; 'tapping': 0.16; 'url:shtml': 0.16; 'later': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'instance,': 0.17; 'input': 0.18; 'math': 0.20; 'bit': 0.21; 'cheers,': 0.23; 'branch': 0.23; 'errors': 0.23; "i've": 0.23; 'device': 0.24; 'command': 0.24; 'machine': 0.24; 'script': 0.24; 'testing': 0.24; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'am,': 0.27; 'coding': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.28; 'chris': 0.28; 'run': 0.28; 'activities.': 0.29; 'closer': 0.29; 'feeds': 0.29; 'though.': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'starts': 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'url:non-standard http port': 0.30; 'error': 0.30; 'seconds': 0.30; 'stuff': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'point': 0.31; 'gets': 0.32; 'file': 0.32; 'running': 0.32; 'getting': 0.33; 'choosing': 0.33; 'defense': 0.33; 'up!': 0.33; 'zero': 0.33; 'handle': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'knowledge': 0.33; 'languages': 0.33; 'another': 0.33; 'text': 0.34; 'screen': 0.34; 'done': 0.34; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'next': 0.35; 'add': 0.36; 'except': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'possible': 0.37; 'available.': 0.37; 'one,': 0.37; 'does': 0.37; 'level': 0.37; 'why': 0.37; 'listing': 0.37; 'quite': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'daily': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'talk': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'help': 0.40; 'matter': 0.61; 'charset:windows-1256': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'time,': 0.62; 'respect': 0.63; 'url:%20': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'ever': 0.63; 'telephone': 0.64; 'replying': 0.64; 'here': 0.65; 'legal': 0.65; 'offer': 0.65; 'harder': 0.65; 'saturday': 0.65; 'sit': 0.65; 'home': 0.66; 'url:%1': 0.68; 'rendering': 0.71; 'sounds': 0.71; 'hoping': 0.72; 'received:204': 0.72; 'clicking': 0.75; 'score': 0.75; 'square': 0.75; 'yourself': 0.77; '100': 0.78; 'offer.': 0.78; 'age': 0.83; '2013': 0.84; '8-9': 0.84; 'adapter,': 0.84; 'belt,': 0.84; 'cable': 0.84; 'comparative': 0.84; 'cups': 0.84; 'exercise.': 0.84; 'find.': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'hobbies': 0.84; 'printer': 0.84; 'received:66.118': 0.84; 'trig': 0.84; 'why?': 0.84; 'ethan': 0.91; 'laser': 0.93; 'taught': 0.97; 'serious': 0.98 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 X-Spam-Level: From: Gene Heskett To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Python Newbie Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:32:28 -0500 References: <5128EF0E.40409@stoneleaf.us> In-Reply-To: <5128EF0E.40409@stoneleaf.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 63 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1361640760 news.xs4all.nl 6926 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:44624 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:39686 On Saturday 23 February 2013 12:03:00 Ethan Furman did opine: > On 02/23/2013 07:51 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > Steve, why do you say you're not a developer? A score of languages > > under your belt, choosing to write code in your spare time, and > > speaking competently on the comparative merits of different languages > > and why you made the decision you made - sounds like you're every bit > > a coder. Don't run yourself down so! :) > > +1 I'll add another +1 to that. My /main/ coding expertise, such as it is, is in assembly on the 6x09 cpu's. Sure, I've done stuff in C, and in Basic09, but when I sit down to do a serious bit of code for that platform that doesn't need fancy trig functions, I do it in assembly. Why? The closer I can get to the hardware, the fewer surprises I find. I can handle input errors for every possible error just by testing for legal input, and if not legal, branch to output a help screen to the dummy that cannot type. Often me. :) Quick stuff that does require some math gets done in basic09 which is good to about 8-9 digits, or calculating the next eclipse, based on julian dates, gets done in C where I have doubles and 17 digit floats available. And I have quite a few bash scripts, often running as background daemons, that greatly simplicate my daily activities. KMail for instance, doesn't have to take 2 minute timeouts while it fetches new mail is one of them. So my email is a matter of tapping the + key for the next message, replying if I want to & clicking send. Everything else is automatic. Ditto if I am working on the old machine & need a printout, I just send the text file from the assembler to device /p, and 15 seconds later a laser printer on that desk fires up and spits out my listing at 22 ppm. /p actually feeds a ser-usb adapter, its output is captured on this machine, sent to cups for rendering & sent back down the same cable to the printer also plugged into that usb hub. To me there is zero point in having to stop & look up the command line syntax to drive lp with a 100 character command line when except for the filename to print, it never changes. Put it in a bash script that doesn't make typu's. So I am a programmer in that sense, just not at the level of abstraction that python has to offer. I am here because I was hoping some knowledge leakage would help me to understand python, but at my age I am beginning to have to admit the level of abstraction is something I may never fully grok. If I ever find a python book that literally starts at square one, it _will_ come home with me though. But I have too many hobbies too, I have a BP rifle that needs a trip to the range this afternoon for some exercise. :) Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: is up! My views The telephone is a good way to talk to people without having to offer them a drink. -- Fran Lebowitz, "Interview" I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any...