Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'debug': 0.07; 'interpreter.': 0.07; 'puts': 0.07; 'tests.': 0.07; 'variables': 0.07; 'arguments': 0.09; 'present,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'restart': 0.09; 'tests,': 0.09; 'runs': 0.10; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; 'stored': 0.12; 'windows': 0.15; 'bit.': 0.16; 'debugger.': 0.16; 'dig': 0.16; "idle',": 0.16; 'informal,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'reload': 0.16; 'skipped': 0.16; 'subject:flow': 0.16; 'tends': 0.16; 'fix': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'do.': 0.18; "hasn't": 0.19; 'code,': 0.22; 'comfortable': 0.22; 'shell': 0.22; 'tests': 0.22; 'print': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'tend': 0.24; 'pass': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'generally': 0.29; 'quickly': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'usually': 0.31; 'changed.': 0.31; 'post.': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'open': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'editor': 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'test': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'idle': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'unit': 0.37; 'wrong': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'window': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'ability': 0.39; 'explain': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'flow': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'experts': 0.60; 'up,': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'love': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'lose': 0.68; 'results': 0.69; 'guts': 0.84; 'pain': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'shell,': 0.91; 'imagine': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: reload and work flow suggestions Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 18:04:45 -0400 References: <61d45045-187c-4be7-9da4-21a3124b753f@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-251-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0 In-Reply-To: <61d45045-187c-4be7-9da4-21a3124b753f@googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1379801106 news.xs4all.nl 15977 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41395 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:54567 On 9/21/2013 5:43 PM, Peter Cacioppi wrote: > This is an idea brought over from another post. > > When I write Python code I generally have 2 or 3 windows open simultaneously. > > 1) An editor for the actual code. > 2) The interactive interpreter. > 3) An editor for the unit tests. (Sometimes skipped for quick one-off scripts) At present, I use an Idle Shell and two editor windows. > My work flow tends to involve using 2 to debug the issues that come up with 1 and 3. I'll write some new code in 1, play around with it in 2, then solidify the tests in 3. Or a test in 3 fails and I dig around with it using 2. F5 in an editor window runs the code, puts the results in Shell, and leaves the objects loaded for interactive exploration in Shell. > My problem is that I tend to use reload() quite a bit. I want to call functions and construct objects that are inside the guts of 1 and pass them arguments that are stored as variables in 2. If I restart my session for 2 I lose these variables (iPython does mitigate the pain here somewhat). Hence, I reload() modules into 2 when they are changed. Since I work with files small enough to reload by rerunning, I have no use for reload(). > I use ipdb a lot in 2. I usually don't feel comfortable with virgin code or a debug fix that hasn't been stepped through with the debugger. I trust tests, formal and informal, and use occasional print to debug. > Is there something wrong with this work flow? I understand most python experts avoid reload(). So what are they doing that I'm not? I love the ability of Python to quickly let you dive deep into your code and set up a difficult case with 2, it's hard to imagine giving this up, and it's hard to imagine using it without reload(). Since 'experts do not use Idle', I must not be one ;-). I will let the real 'experts' explain what they do. -- Terry Jan Reedy