Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; '"this': 0.03; 'url:pipermail': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'reject': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; 'claimed': 0.09; 'false.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'repeated': 0.09; 'tests,': 0.09; 'runs': 0.10; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '"python': 0.16; 'a",': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'ignore': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'first.': 0.19; 'usability': 0.19; 'import': 0.22; 'tests': 0.22; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; '"you': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'decide': 0.24; 'non': 0.24; 'compare': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'developing': 0.27; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'tried': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; "skip:' 10": 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; '3.2': 0.31; 'becoming': 0.31; 'closer': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'python"': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'open': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'reader': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'idle': 0.36; 'words,': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'starting': 0.37; 'sometimes': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'explain': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'skip:p 20': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'received:173': 0.61; 'times': 0.62; 'show': 0.63; 'high': 0.63; 'different': 0.65; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'increase': 0.74; '100': 0.79; 'faster.': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'seriously,': 0.84; 'subject:long': 0.84; 'ratio': 0.91; 'system:': 0.91; 'period.': 0.95 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Jan Reedy Subject: Re: Performance of int/long in Python 3 Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 17:33:54 -0400 References: <5159beb6$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4103dc28-a0dc-4740-bb38-b6bcb58bedfb@h1g2000vbx.googlegroups.com> <515a9851$0$29891$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <515ae520$0$29967$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <7f0f6502-6368-4d58-b248-36653e2b3cfa@w21g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-251-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 In-Reply-To: <7f0f6502-6368-4d58-b248-36653e2b3cfa@w21g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 79 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1364938450 news.xs4all.nl 6857 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49920 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:42607 On 4/2/2013 11:12 AM, jmfauth wrote: > On 2 avr, 16:03, Steven D'Aprano +comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: >> I'm sure you didn't intend to be insulting, but some of us *have* taken >> JMF seriously, at least at first. His repeated overblown claims of how >> Python is destroying Unicode ... ... = 'usability in Python" or some variation on that. > Sorrry I never claimed this, I'm just seeing on how Python is becoming > less Unicode friendly. Let us see what Jim has claimed, starting in 2012 August. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/628826.html "Devs are developing sophisticed tools based on a non working basis." http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/629514.html "This "Flexible String Representation" fails." http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/629554.html "This flexible representation is working absurdly." Reader can decide whether 'non-working', 'fails', 'working absurdly' are closer to 'destroying Unicode usability or just 'less friendly'. On speed: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/628781.html "Python 3.3 is "slower" than Python 3.2." http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/628762.html "I can open IDLE with Py 3.2 ou Py 3.3 and compare strings manipulations. Py 3.3 is always slower. Period." False. Period. Here is my followup at the time. python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-August/628779.html "You have not tried enough tests ;-). On my Win7-64 system: from timeit import timeit print(timeit(" 'a'*10000 ")) 3.3.0b2: .5 3.2.3: .8 print(timeit("c in a", "c = '…'; a = 'a'*10000")) 3.3: .05 (independent of len(a)!) 3.2: 5.8 100 times slower! Increase len(a) and the ratio can be made as high as one wants! print(timeit("a.encode()", "a = 'a'*1000")) 3.2: 1.5 3.3: .26" If one runs stringbency.ph with its 40 or so tests, 3.2 is sometimes faster and 3.3 is sometimes faster. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/630736.html On to September: "http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/630736.html" "Avoid Py3.3" In other words, ignore all the benefits and reject because a couple of selected microbenchmarks show a slowdown. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631730.html "Py 3.3 succeeded to somehow kill unicode" I will stop here and let Jim explain how 'kill unicode' is different from 'destroy unicode'. -- Terry Jan Reedy