Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!feeder.news-service.com!xlned.com!feeder5.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.007 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'snippet': 0.07; 'something,': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'argument,': 0.09; 'assert': 0.09; 'chose': 0.09; 'pm,': 0.10; 'wrote:': 0.14; 'assertion': 0.16; 'boolean': 0.16; 'definition,': 0.16; 'disagree,': 0.16; 'false)': 0.16; '\xa0as': 0.16; '\xa0to': 0.16; 'algorithm': 0.16; 'argument': 0.16; 'compatible': 0.16; 'language': 0.18; 'phrase': 0.19; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.21; 'commit': 0.22; 'received:209.85.161.46': 0.23; 'received:mail- fx0-f46.google.com': 0.23; '(or': 0.24; 'code': 0.24; "doesn't": 0.25; 'demonstrate': 0.26; 'received:209.85.161': 0.26; 'example': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'sat,': 0.29; 'seem': 0.32; 'steven': 0.32; 'does': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'list': 0.33; 'actually': 0.33; 'things': 0.33; 'rather': 0.34; 'regardless': 0.34; 'test': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'something': 0.37; 'received:209.85': 0.37; 'case': 0.37; 'another': 0.37; 'response': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'positive': 0.38; 'anything': 0.38; 'but': 0.38; 'though': 0.38; 'cases,': 0.38; 'realize': 0.38; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'case,': 0.39; 'said': 0.39; 'received:209': 0.39; 'itself.': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'your': 0.60; 'accounts': 0.61; 'view': 0.66; 'yourself': 0.68; 'prove': 0.68; 'details.': 0.69; 'sincere': 0.80; 'condition,': 0.84; 'ironic': 0.84; 'invite': 0.89 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SquhwChIyq5UwUl4+xYRC1ASUgfknaCh6CxaJhe3sSQ=; b=xTe/f4VS3gS4ZZ6omuor7T2SfcD5GM+XnG8cgUasbG60L0RDwbUgsznG5/3Kou4M9R AkmNzlh5fj/kxLJGxW2iDiYcWQYBK3sYMPSfBEy/1PCjVj1S7ngmIlNSxPoS1FLATKyR 26ibzYjtqIzMI6ougnIqMJaJae4xuVew1fGN0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IxX75fkdn1cn5FiP32VyqhyeqPFiylmjdNCPfY72UG9iQb/RP9SZzPiGZCLQyG4iEE rO3km+b1ec8kgb/dx8fy3Zmw8QBRrItuiAmZ9cueaN7ce1E1uajUwsY9KuKIeP9VWU66 1tzlvw/nA53X6rowZrAd8h8YkgS1qGVs/QMTs= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2giEp.236$QL2.62@newsfe04.iad> References: <4DDC7938.5000900@gmail.com> <4ddfc8ae$0$29996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4de09317$0$29996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <2giEp.236$QL2.62@newsfe04.iad> From: Ian Kelly Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 02:06:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Beginner needs advice To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.94.164.166 X-Trace: 1306656446 news.xs4all.nl 49174 [::ffff:82.94.164.166]:54701 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:6517 On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 8:33 PM, harrismh777 wrot= e: > In this present case the straw-man was not "me," rather the straw-man was > the python language itself. You chose a code-snippet (one small puny dang= le > that doesn't prove a thing) and used it to speak for the entire language! > =A0As though one code-block is enough to demonstrate compatibility for th= e > entire language in all of its nuances and details. =A0To prove something > positive with a test case requires that you provide *all* test cases, or > that you provide an algorithm that accounts for *all* test cases... you > cannot prove compatibility with a code-snippet. You have just misrepresented Steven's argument, which is rather ironic considering that you're the one who brought up straw-men. Steven did not use one code snippet to demonstrate that Python 2 and Python 3 are fully compatible. The code snippet merely demonstrated that Python 2 and 3 are not "totally incompatible" as you had claimed. I realize you are now asserting that compatibility is a boolean condition, and that "totally incompatible" is a redundant phrase that you tossed out as a joke. I don't know whether you're sincere or backpedaling, but in any case this assertion is flatly ludicrous. Following your definition, *nothing* is compatible with anything else. If you disagree, then I invite you to list one example of two different things that are compatible. And finally, would you please just knock off the fallacy crap? If you assert something, and another person counters with a straw-man, and you respond by dismissing his argument as a straw-man, your response is valid. But if you assert something, and another person makes a counter-argument, to whom you invariably respond by crying "Straw-man!" or "False analogy!" (or in your case, "Analogy!"; you seem to view all analogies as false) regardless of what that person actually said -- even if that person does *sometimes* actually commit those fallacies -- then you yourself are employing an ad hominem.