Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!feeder.news-service.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.022 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'disagree': 0.07; 'happily': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'it;': 0.09; '"using': 0.16; '(is': 0.16; 'discourages': 0.16; "else's": 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'situations,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'language': 0.17; 'arguments': 0.18; 'options.': 0.21; "doesn't": 0.22; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'indentation': 0.23; 'pm,': 0.24; 'aug': 0.24; "python's": 0.24; 'code': 0.25; 'fact': 0.27; 'language.': 0.28; 'thu,': 0.28; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.29; 'times.': 0.30; 'argue': 0.30; 'syntax,': 0.30; 'programmers': 0.31; 'least': 0.31; 'chris': 0.32; 'list': 0.32; 'change.': 0.32; 'familiar': 0.32; 'usually': 0.32; "can't": 0.33; 'there': 0.33; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.33; 'someone': 0.34; 'quite': 0.34; 'posters': 0.34; 'views.': 0.34; 'pretty': 0.35; 'regular': 0.35; 'problems': 0.36; 'another': 0.37; 'languages': 0.37; 'several': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'open': 0.37; 'too,': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'received:google.com': 0.38; '8bit%:8': 0.38; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'skip:\xa0 10': 0.39; "there's": 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:74.125': 0.39; 'called': 0.40; 'might': 0.40; "it's": 0.40; 'download': 0.60; 'world': 0.62; '11,': 0.68; 'subject:line': 0.73; 'blank': 0.74; 'exclude': 0.77; '10:19': 0.84; 'ignorance': 0.84; 'afford.': 0.91; 'luxury': 0.91; 'few.': 0.93; 'surprise': 0.97 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Khzkqbkh4/dPFaxqlyLcjbGog3yKfOdr5jF9u2+E/Zw=; b=vFRkZOzEUzCg2lvRFwz41SlYjrxpuf8H85YwLXJuT4A4UjRcZ12HUPcGB7Oox6Qvuf pPIcTvHZ6x7FVjxHDvImhe48tboTkpF9M3Ign39hlLqonxjrQ38CWGa+txXRNz3JDrj7 S7Ht9nKwXaczvIfrmQeOCz6puk3PxKuz7jpNk= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <1312951356.77394.YahooMailNeo@web121518.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <4e424208$0$29965$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1312981104.89312.YahooMailNeo@web121520.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1312982377.95657.YahooMailNeo@web121508.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <87fwl9hr4r.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <87obzwh4o0.fsf@benfinney.id.au> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 00:58:30 +0100 Subject: Re: allow line break at operators From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1313107113 news.xs4all.nl 23900 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:52544 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:11239 On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:19 PM, Seebs wrote: > I am pretty sure Python is a pretty nice language. =A0However, the indent= ation > thing has screwed me a few times. =A0Furthermore, I know people who like = Python > a great deal and acknowledge, without much difficulty, that the indentati= on > thing has caused problems or incompatibilities for them. > Indentation-is-syntax is a feature of Python, and one that's not likely to change. Some programmers do not like indentation to be syntax, and a lot of them are not likely to change their views. There's a solution to this dilemma; it's called "using another language". Python is just one of many excellent languages in the world today. Even if you exclude non-free languages and non-free compilers/interpreters, you still have a wealth of options. Check Wikipedia, find one in a category that interests you, download a development environment, and give it a shot! It would surprise me *greatly* if the regular posters on this list were not all familiar with several languages other than Python, including at least one bracey language. The arguments do not come from ignorance but from knowledge. Incidentally, I will happily argue the benefits of Python's significant whitespace, even though I disagree with it; there are quite a few. (Is the fact that it discourages massive one-liners considered to be a benefit?) Of course, sometimes choosing another language is a luxury you can't afford. But in those situations, usually you're slotting into someone else's code Manual of Style too, so you might be required to write C code with three-space indents and a blank line before every open brace, for all we know. Doesn't matter that you're in a whitespace-insignificant language; you are in a whitespace-significant *environment*, and that's what matters. Chris Angelico