Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.031 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.94; '*S*': 0.00; 'author:': 0.03; 'anyway.': 0.04; 'argument': 0.04; 'case.': 0.05; 'python:': 0.09; 'subject:while': 0.09; 'advice,': 0.16; 'agree.': 0.16; 'claim,': 0.16; 'write.': 0.16; 'code.': 0.20; 'question.': 0.20; '"",': 0.22; 'claimed': 0.22; 'explicit': 0.22; 'somebody': 0.23; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; '(most': 0.27; 'implied': 0.29; 'probably': 0.29; 'code': 0.31; 'maintained': 0.33; 'traceback': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'received:192.168.0': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'level': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'skip:l 20': 0.38; 'things': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:192': 0.39; 'received:192.168': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'claim': 0.60; 'real': 0.61; 'received:62': 0.62; 'helps': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'premise': 0.84; 'received:192.168.0.101': 0.84; 'received:192.168.13': 0.84; 'received:62.179': 0.84; 'received:62.179.121': 0.84; 'received:upcmail.net': 0.84; 'zen': 0.84 X-SourceIP: 89.134.225.226 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:17:58 +0200 From: Laszlo Nagy User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Implicit conversion to boolean in if and while statements References: <5002a1f9$0$29995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <7b027612-a07e-40f9-8ad2-3e95c5440482@googlegroups.com> <86872ad2-fda0-403b-9f18-d1cb18e41860@t32g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> <50038364$0$29995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <50039698$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> In-Reply-To: <50039698$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1342473488 news.xs4all.nl 6926 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54215 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:25440 >> ... >> >> Traceback (most recent quip last): >> Author: "", line 7, in >> LogicalFallacyError: "Reductio ad absurdum" > > Deary deary me Rick. Reductio ad adsurdum is not a fallacy. It is a > counter-argument to an argument or claim, by showing that the premise of > the original claim leads to an absurd conclusion. > > You have claimed that we should always be explicit whenever we write. But > you do not actually live up to your own advice, because you can't: it is > absurd to try to be explicit about everything all the time. You have > misunderstood the purpose of the Zen of Python: it is not to claim that > everything should be explicit, but to avoid code that is hard to > understand because things which need to be explicit for clarity are > implied by other parts of your code. I agree. There is no pont in abolutizing explicitness anyway. It is not a yes/no question. You cannot tell that somebody is "not explicit". It is not something that can be decided. But you can say that he was "not explicit enough" in a concrete case. There is an accepted level of explicitness. You can probably always be more expicit, or less explicit. Being more explicit is not the goal. But is a good practice to be more explicit if it helps you achieve the real goal. For example, writting a program that can be maintained easily.