Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.068 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.86; '*S*': 0.00; 'frameworks': 0.05; 'properly.': 0.07; 'programmer': 0.11; 'subject:python': 0.11; 'sat,': 0.15; 'hackers': 0.16; 'oct': 0.16; 'subject:Feedback': 0.16; "up'": 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'basically': 0.17; 'all,': 0.21; 'do.': 0.21; 'received:209.85.216.46': 0.21; 'modifying': 0.22; 'for?': 0.23; 'task': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'setting': 0.26; 'guess': 0.27; 'separate': 0.27; 'rest': 0.28; 'chris': 0.28; 'decide': 0.28; 'fine': 0.28; 'trouble': 0.28; 'fighting': 0.29; 'forces': 0.29; 'us!': 0.29; 'url:mailman': 0.29; 'usually': 0.30; 'framework': 0.30; '(and': 0.32; 'system,': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.32; 'url:listinfo': 0.32; 'club': 0.33; 'much.': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'front': 0.33; 'likely': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'awesome': 0.35; 'said,': 0.35; 'doing': 0.35; 'pm,': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'created': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'skip:p 20': 0.36; 'author': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'received:209.85.216': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'green': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'easily': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'end': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'most': 0.61; 'you.': 0.61; 'header:Message-Id:1': 0.62; 'is.': 0.62; 'received:96': 0.62; 'times': 0.63; 'show': 0.63; 'designers': 0.75; '+1100': 0.84; 'actually,': 0.84; 'etienne': 0.84; 'flip': 0.84; 'imagination': 0.84; 'immune': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+QAzc2dHQW2NK1mhyT15YzloRiZ98RpL5dcvSI74pqA=; b=IANhnMMddwmdbEiiy6h7evkBz+lvwbKQFnNM+3/lZvB9ng3WM9j0FzHaIVE/5EykG8 KaoDWXzYyW2eOf9TX6hlrp6pvkDycQpITtdQnfXOeVndt/DUbZZEEStASyJg8y6oP+i+ 31TVPsfAxbpwL8J6b/yDL9AdsEe9G3nqc16Tef0skxRfAPTIDyyico2VGz6zv8kFJHkF gvs+rqM5yXduxw4qr2aihQzWvWHplJZvD8YBWFJoTiwd84H+ARnh2Iv0EGSsphywkexW V4V02UNBEGFapkW7HGKUbazrXW/6ZxD+hM1kbTmSUaXubC87BYJ2d7fBnQdClVHw4CF4 n4pQ== Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:44:56 -0400 From: Etienne Robillard To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Feedback on my python framework I'm building. In-Reply-To: References: <634c9dca-e64d-40c6-b9d5-cf04a86a220a@googlegroups.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.2.0 (GTK+ 2.24.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1350139479 news.xs4all.nl 6879 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:58076 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:31198 On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:12:30 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, wrote: > > Basically its a framework that forces the developer(s) to strictly separate the model from the view and controller. You can 'hook up' multiple controllers to a project. The model layer can be completely mocked out so front end designers don't have to bother setting up Postgres/rabbitmq/whatever. > > I don't like frameworks that force too much. Actually, I guess that > means I don't like frameworks at all, I like toolsets. Let the > programmer decide what he wants to do. > > That said, though, there are times when a good framework can do 90% of > your work for you. The trouble comes when you want to do something the > author didn't think of - you might well end up either fighting against > the system, or modifying the framework to suit your task (and that > works only if you created it yourself). Thin frameworks are usually > immune to this, but on the flip side, they're less likely to be doing > most of your work for you. > > It's really easy to demo something and show how awesome it is. How > easily can it be turned to a task it was never built for? Perhaps we deserve such lame/mediocre web frameworks after all, as Imagination is for those who deserve the freedom to use it properly. > ChrisA > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list -- Etienne Robillard Green Tea Hackers Club Fine Software Carpentry For The Rest Of Us! http://gthc.org/ erob@gthcfoundation.org