Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Johansson" Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Learning Python (or Haskell) makes you a worse programmer Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 09:37:00 -0400 Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <56f9cffb$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56FA00EC.80909@gmail.com> <56FA537F.9090506@mail.de> <56FB0FF6.3000305@harvee.org> <56FBCF3F.8060903@harvee.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Zqe0XGB6D+a3RbIfrBB8pQJA77I0PdoGKwtDgxNK2TQw== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'ideally': 0.04; 'patterns': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'variant': 0.07; 'ast': 0.09; 'chunks': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'python.': 0.11; 'language,': 0.11; 'translate': 0.15; 'thu,': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'snippets': 0.16; 'subject:Learning': 0.16; 'subject:programmer': 0.16; 'wrestling': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'translation': 0.16; 'transform': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; 'machine': 0.21; '31,': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'code.': 0.23; 'long,': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'code': 0.30; 'version,': 0.30; "i'd": 0.31; 'rules': 0.31; 'probably': 0.31; "can't": 0.32; 'etc.)': 0.32; 'ideal': 0.32; 'subject:) ': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.33; 'problem': 0.33; 'effort.': 0.33; 'smart': 0.33; 'editor': 0.34; 'next': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'eric': 0.35; 'mine': 0.35; 'according': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'expect': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'integration': 0.38; 'team.': 0.39; 'system.': 0.39; 'received:192': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'back': 0.62; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.62; 'between': 0.65; 'mar': 0.65; 'friendly': 0.74; 'sounds': 0.76; 'compiles': 0.84; 'execution.': 0.84; 'speech': 0.84; 'way)': 0.84; 'subject:you': 0.85; 'hands': 0.96 DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.9.2 z.eggo.org A77A158011F DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=harvee.org; s=5A244BA4-9B4C-11E4-B3C5-4D2F21081A62; t=1459345025; bh=ThAjtPv9GLo5WerAUH/EVmZhxjqKnFzUyWLb3mpoS9Q=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MCRB2c7VV5TJjWDt4KhZHMXcSWtFqWlmV942GJ7qNjRmn/f/CMkCcG1mQ99dzwUAV UscwqphYYoT3lWPzqXMWmvE1mpEdc80hV1tCRBz8fGhiTfSJ0aLUHu3vlcku1sANtL rl6fvMxdUuzeV088inKPXn3S9iZIiQwgOE+By5R0= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at harvee.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:106073 On 3/30/2016 9:09 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:06 AM, Eric S. Johansson wrote: >> I need a co-conspirator with better hands than mine to get through the next >> stage which is some form of an AST smart editor that operates on larger >> chunks such as idioms or snippets in a speech friendly way. Ideally I'd like >> to see a bidirectional transform between the spoken form and a code form so >> that you can edit the spoken form and regenerate the code. > Sounds to me like what you want is a variant language, a > speech-friendly programming language that compiles to Python. You > effectively store the spoken version, and translate it (one way) to > Python for execution. That would be ideal but the problem comes with working with the team. I can't expect the other members the team to learn the system. I need to be able to work according to the teams rules (coding style etc.) for proper integration into an effort. Maybe I should be looking at machine learning for identifying patterns in the code and translation back to a spoken form. It be interesting to see what people could come up with though for a speech friendly Python model. I've been wrestling with the problem so long, I probably have tons of blind spots.