Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Everything good about Python except GUI IDE? Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 19:20:44 +1100 Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <64a6599c-fae1-469d-bcee-875165b3cc7d@googlegroups.com> <56d294f8$0$1604$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <234a398e-1b0f-467b-a8cb-d7ca748f8062@googlegroups.com> <84922f24-3e00-4a23-b26d-5e6c0d8e7e04@googlegroups.com> <87y4a5c58i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87twksdg9c.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87d1rgca58.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de DwkwOQCn6DeDnba4OOTFpwpL+uhc3tnxkvu+GODoL3rA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.050 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.90; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'javascript,': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'effect.': 0.09; 'suggest': 0.15; '2016': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'real-time.': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'subject:GUI': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'app': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.16; 'flexibility': 0.18; 'instance,': 0.18; 'changes': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'logical': 0.22; 'own.': 0.22; '(or': 0.23; 'feb': 0.23; 'plain': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'example': 0.26; 'separate': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'converting': 0.27; 'css': 0.27; 'fine': 0.28; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'another': 0.32; 'source': 0.33; 'combination': 0.33; '(for': 0.34; 'structure': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'text.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'monday,': 0.36; 'visual': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'still': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'skip:n 10': 0.62; 'making': 0.62; 'more': 0.63; 'goal': 0.64; 'talking': 0.67; 'box,': 0.67; 'feeling': 0.72; 'filling': 0.76; 'chrisa': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'layout.': 0.84; 'non-critical': 0.84; 'of?': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84; 'utc+5:30,': 0.84; 'virtue': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'why?': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=45uuGDkJk9fX8C6fDXKbMPUuLm9YzTA2BVat+n7yurs=; b=evjuBetjaCp9g2NjOcb09gCLZACRspnXkjgHZXQ6bXMx+XobvUrE/C4PCZRoKdfHBB /0nel2eOpErJVJrihAHLfyWHCxgC94uZWechiMTt1qhW9prB2+ii9HX6viMO6HEDrWpw 67gcY75i2tYisaNrk0wGFMD3A1wyqWHRx97DbLZjWkz0Icb4xrBZHomdPp4qKd2v4CeI IIO4FfN9cZSBrKW7/7zvrLAJYMjrBEbmrOUwzjIoYoXRWbPfuxGiwfPZcDv0XARyYa+d keo8vw2DsQ5L1Jq7R7il4MtBwK+0Ot0BBTtRXqfcJSW6sxt8imOjEMq8mZaTD27s9TZc 2reg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=45uuGDkJk9fX8C6fDXKbMPUuLm9YzTA2BVat+n7yurs=; b=F0vagHZRt2NhOC8OmoI18dCrRQd8fHp7P1oYn5Jwd5F+qW0t3fcYJPkoFsKrGwko2K gIJDmWZKDGbgdSLa3WwO6k9NwT3watjqPEFHXiE6bGkKZg9BcFRhHc4G+hrITpvLS/qz 16ji2hK2rQABB3N+JUtKTA/mu9oEY+Rp8iLQzsIfbfESZsYmNM2Da+/gORYPkDeweopF I1r5kE3D/VMyQe6vLBIuIHKPU7KyTqoOaYA7hCLeMkRfVnq0KU7umgVD/oUIjeMzChc0 h29ecPpTPvQuHKDagoKxDlq3sgH8XERuMoS9xlGIqjQwcqv9nSeiDKDM7oBVqMmeBoBw iWPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKAd9ESoF8Gtv/GI2uJgZOdLFpusoewSTL++JWtX2+7a3zA5KgN6iigPL0p3O43mL+Z2sLshAG997aMTw== X-Received: by 10.50.43.168 with SMTP id x8mr8745612igl.92.1456734044546; Mon, 29 Feb 2016 00:20:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:103693 On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 6:20 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 11:48:25 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Gordon Levi : >> >> > Nobody likes filling in forms but how do you suggest converting a form >> > based app into something loveable. >> >> Straight HTML does forms just fine without CSS or JavaScript, yet few >> can resist. > > Abjure JS/CSS is a virtue? Why? > In any case with or without its still a form not plain (printf/scanf) text. > So what exactly are we talking of? Abjuring JS may be a virtue (or at least, making it a non-critical part of your web site), but CSS is important to document structure and layout. The combination of HTML and CSS provides a logical structure with separate styling, which IMO is an excellent thing. It's possible to accomplish the same goal in other ways (for instance, Markdown source code for the structure and HTML for the layout), but CSS provides enough flexibility to do this just fine on its own. Incidentally, HTML+CSS is another excellent example of code being used to create a visual effect. While there *are* WYSIWYG HTML editors, I'm not familiar with any WYISWYG HTML+CSS editors, and I much more often see a fast-turnaround code editing system such as codepen.io - you change the HTML in one box, or the CSS in another, and the result down below changes in real-time. It wouldn't be too hard to create something like this for a GUI, and it'd remove some of that feeling of non-interactivity while still retaining all the benefits of code above drag-and-drop. ChrisA