Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!newsfeed.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: raise None Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2016 14:31:48 +1100 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <56847239$0$1590$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684842a$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5684aa1a$0$1602$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <56854b49$0$1615$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5c824139-510c-4afd-814a-03355187fa3f@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de lWt4jYsygLGNVZBRQ83/wgrkyEF8Gs9HknD3xXe2kFiA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.013 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'bits': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'subject:None': 0.09; 'jan': 0.11; 'question.': 0.13; 'thursday,': 0.13; 'ignore': 0.14; '2016': 0.16; 'discuss.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'tracebacks': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'debugging': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'issue.': 0.20; '31,': 0.22; 'decide': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'figure': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'tutorial': 0.29; 'december': 0.32; 'topic': 0.32; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'on,': 0.35; 'important.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'step': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'data': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'information,': 0.61; 'real': 0.62; 'more': 0.63; 'great': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'series': 0.65; 'believe': 0.66; 'beautiful': 0.66; 'worth': 0.67; 'helping': 0.67; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'ultimately,': 0.84; 'utc+5:30,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=tdhhoav4peltvkaa26UTRCrJmJsTAUejh/3xZy1+J98=; b=NFMhVaW7sbvWEbRSxbsMOt+NSDX3m8fYJ2THbCyVt0nCSPtqs7vpiWTn+W5JY5EbqN 9zsmnzSfdREqqqznHKeJ3gsRfeBExvILrmVp6sWkFVHEFT6al0y7OYdnXF5Rt04qbZaz 4N4CdEvT6qVasG35/zFHywRduHCLV4jzdQFHLkZJcPG4CigizfWYC7WlWBrX9o/LKFWO QL2hdqosIHW8dkEAMYfbjb3m6j13dye0K7vmnYjPqAaPuvgskFLHRfMsMTE/J7/YCvUA baD5dxigKbL2JXqdg2tncRdAzrThbHryiQTaUAOc/qzRWkCx3QU9522ZiQqJV5te2yqh veOg== X-Received: by 10.107.14.73 with SMTP id 70mr47591011ioo.31.1451878308748; Sun, 03 Jan 2016 19:31:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5c824139-510c-4afd-814a-03355187fa3f@googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:101226 On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:04 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 9:05:58 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> But I think it is a real issue. I believe in beautiful tracebacks that give >> you just the right amount of information, neither too little nor two much. >> Debugging is hard enough with being given more information than you need >> and having to decide what bits to ignore and which are important. > > > It would be nice if the tutorial (FAQ? Lang-Ref??) had a section on how to wade tracebacks Hmm, I don't think that's a language reference question. It's more something that I would put into a series of blog posts. But I agree - this is a great topic to discuss. Ultimately, debugging consists of two things: find out more about what's going on, and dig through the data from the first step to figure out what's significant. Tips for helping people master either half of that are well worth publishing. ChrisA