Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!feeder.erje.net!1.eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.009 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Django': 0.03; 'sql.': 0.07; 'abstraction': 0.09; 'orm': 0.09; 'django': 0.13; 'languages.': 0.15; 'at.': 0.16; 'expressions.': 0.16; 'from:addr:torriem': 0.16; 'from:name:michael torrie': 0.16; 'orm,': 0.16; 'sqlalchemy': 0.16; 'templating': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'saying': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.26; 'separate': 0.27; 'specifically': 0.28; 'regular': 0.29; 'mention': 0.30; 'post': 0.31; 'getting': 0.33; 'problem': 0.33; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.34; 'solving': 0.35; 'knowledge': 0.35; 'quite': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'framework': 0.36; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'things': 0.38; 'speak': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'received:192': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'engine': 0.62; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.62; 'more': 0.63; 'demand': 0.79; 'forgotten': 0.91 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:10:42 -0600 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Is Django the way to go for a newbie? References: <55C7E15C.6070003@verizon.net> <6f2dc159-146b-44b8-b72e-fa34c4dc43cf@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1439521847 news.xs4all.nl 2968 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:95369 On 08/13/2015 07:30 PM, Rustom Mody wrote: > Nothing specifically Django I am getting at. > Just that learning > - a templating engine -- eg Cheetah, Mako > - an ORM eg SQLAlchemy > - etc > > is more fun than learning to chant the right mantras that a framework > demands without any clue of what/why/how Indeed. It's this very thing that you speak of that makes web development very discouraging to me because it does demand knowledge of quite a few separate but interconnected domains and their specific languages. In my original post I had forgotten to mention ORM, though I did mention SQL. Adding abstraction in theory makes things easier. In practice it's often kind of like the old saying about solving a problem using regular expressions.