Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'repository': 0.05; 'say,': 0.05; '*not*': 0.07; 'algorithms,': 0.07; 'clause': 0.09; 'compact': 0.09; 'git': 0.09; 'mercurial': 0.09; 'referenced': 0.09; 'stored': 0.12; 'itself.': 0.14; 'compression': 0.16; 'detects': 0.16; 'expect,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'somewhere.': 0.16; 'storing': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '(the': 0.22; 'format,': 0.24; 'instance,': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'apparently': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'lot.': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'subject:that': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'quite': 0.32; 'tool': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'data,': 0.36; 'described': 0.36; 'library.': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'application': 0.37; 'nov': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'track': 0.38; 'bad': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'is.': 0.60; 'then,': 0.60; 'information,': 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'zip': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'limits:': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=DWx1jfjdY4DkPZvtFvcg3ZABfN3b7etQLVJqcXneNaI=; b=IFDOxPxyoV2m4GIDSztJAX48u8qwsIdhbzxtQMk0JaLDrU7N4Bo5kp9utWMQAlipM1 Neu7m4LY++0Y3ia3oPSEEj7y3ZLW855ElOk83mnc5G9rJ3JOJfOJ08DKdMUrAH5+J02U JqVJplCOBhGyJzLRAvrn7kproT8stnfv+G52OA6ktehbRh9ER0T/SfyK6MT4U6HwI+fF SCfvz+uHC523+jV9ShlPbthWLb0WhUd3UmZfaFkH1UmMOZ5ommDCBYDILJudXcfatA+/ HRSZzUqWSpF6GoISDuwLLSyKjAspXaJn2hBAgJeGrSckpdea63YZ0MJ1Q1eABWEDWOvu Mjwg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.216.132 with SMTP id oq4mr11023427pbc.50.1383451830914; Sat, 02 Nov 2013 21:10:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5275c065$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <205bfa4f-29de-43de-be5a-72a12d77d0c9@googlegroups.com> <5275c065$0$29972$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 15:10:30 +1100 Subject: Re: Algorithm that makes maximum compression of completly diffused data. From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1383451840 news.xs4all.nl 15951 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:36346 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:58360 On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > There is a way to apparently get around these limits: store data > externally, perhaps inside the compression application itself. Then, if > you just look at the compressed file (the "data.zip" equivalent, although > I stress that zip compression is *not* like this), you might think it has > shrunk quite a lot. But when you include the hidden data, the compression > is not quite so impressive... Storing externally is, of course, a very useful thing - it's just not compression. For instance, a git repository (and quite likely a Mercurial one too) keeps track of files as blobs of data referenced by their cryptographic hashes. The current state of a directory can be described by listing file names with their object hashes, which is a very compact notation; but it doesn't have _all_ the information, and the "decompression" process involves fetching file contents from the library. It's a tool in the arsenal, but it's not compression in the same way that PK-ZIP is. With real compression algorithms, there's usually an "out" clause that detects that the algorithm's doing a bad job. The file format for PK-ZIP and, I expect, every other archiving+compression file format, has allowances for some of the files to be stored uncompressed. That way, there's no need for any file to be enlarged by more than some signature - say, a one-byte "compression type" marker, or even a one-bit mark somewhere. But enlarged they must be, for the reasons Steven explained. ChrisA