Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.010 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'cpython': 0.05; '21,': 0.07; 'linear': 0.07; 'items)': 0.09; 'slices': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.10; 'python': 0.11; 'algorithm': 0.13; 'thu,': 0.15; 'cutoff': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'low.': 0.16; 'quadratic': 0.16; 'sorting': 0.16; 'sure.': 0.16; 'uses,': 0.16; 'worst': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'case.': 0.18; 'suggested': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.21; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.21; '2015': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; 'not,': 0.27; 'ago': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'asked': 0.28; 'looks': 0.29; 'arithmetic': 0.29; 'comparison': 0.29; 'equally': 0.29; 'fast.': 0.29; 'url:wikipedia': 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'url:wiki': 0.30; 'checks': 0.31; 'subject:time': 0.31; '[1]': 0.32; 'usually': 0.33; 'algorithms.': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'case,': 0.34; 'requirements': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'lists': 0.34; 'acceptable': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'being': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'list,': 0.36; 'smaller': 0.36; 'quite': 0.37; 'turn': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'someone': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.39; 'url:en': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'performance': 0.39; 'seem': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'impact': 0.61; 'limit': 0.65; 'fact,': 0.67; 'account': 0.67; 'upper': 0.76; 'algorithm,': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'complexity': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'valid,': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.90; 'average': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=PhkwvVXy44cNYejrmWvjTjRimvD1kMz6lpW1eso8xGE=; b=ABnGvMkDr/k66+7JnyGYhaw6raSfm0h8pi8PhYez2S/4SEOSj/GXDcp3aO/gyGv5nQ kUC9gnsGAOZri5zWprogAarK5BRQWyimr9lzY8y4EUrqgPgaFm5hiITabTd+IZN5465y h5ARctVDPjjBppcKCqwCXf2ZPAt0ZlZbpfkbWu7lhmmiQAIjBMTdQqyjAFJu3aXNm4Pv 2OKLdFFXayAVOMQRqUoyHdEpSs6NNfmqutPlFQC4kMwBu+9vHBfpy5qou2fbEknBfat3 Uo9qKB9oTROSYP1Odd/UdPH/KrYJs+eentjgMo33WtmcUHX3CESaSzH8nEJiRto/WAxH qIQg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.66.146 with SMTP id f18mr33219065igt.14.1432196741880; Thu, 21 May 2015 01:25:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <555d8ae3$0$11095$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> References: <9ceklad15llnv3npejq9iuh91soci8aeqo@4ax.com> <555b0621$0$2753$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> <555b6db8$0$12996$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <555d8ae3$0$11095$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 18:25:41 +1000 Subject: Re: Slices time complexity From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1432196751 news.xs4all.nl 2832 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49924 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:91002 On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 5:35 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> You don't need huge. On any algorithm where slices are being used you >> will have to account for the linear complexity. You seem to be >> dismissive of this fact, but it can have tremendous performance >> implications, since it can turn a linear algorithm into a quadratic >> one just like that. > > Sure. And for small enough N, everything is fast. > > There's a sorting algorithm, usually called "Bozo sort", which shuffles the > list, then checks whether it is sorted. If not, it shuffles it again, until > it is sorted. Bozo sort is a *terrible* algorithm, with no upper limit to > the worst case, and O(N!) for the average case. And yet, with small lists > (say, five items) the performance is acceptable if your requirements are > low. A less ridiculous, but equally valid, comparison is with multiplication algorithms. A while ago someone asked about what Python uses, and on learning that CPython uses Karatsuba [1], suggested that some other algorithm (I don't remember which) had better asymptotic complexity. Downside: It'd be slower for smaller numbers, and the complexity cost of an additional cutoff ("use grade-school up to X, then Karatsuba up to Y, then Fuerer's") would also negatively impact performance overall. Grade-school arithmetic is O(N*N) which looks terrible... but for smallish numbers, its performance is quite adequate. ChrisA [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karatsuba_algorithm