Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.albasani.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.058 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.88; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'subject:Error': 0.07; '"my': 0.09; 'executed': 0.09; 'false.': 0.09; 'modeling,': 0.09; 'brothers': 0.16; 'hacked': 0.16; 'parts.': 0.16; 'pilot': 0.16; 'planes': 0.16; 'received:mac.com': 0.16; 'right;': 0.16; 'shifts': 0.16; 'uncle': 0.16; 'followed': 0.16; 'thursday,': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'obviously': 0.18; 'received:10.0.1': 0.19; 'not,': 0.20; '>>>': 0.22; 'to:name:python-list@python.org': 0.22; '31,': 0.24; 'together.': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'right.': 0.26; 'to:2**1': 0.27; '???': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'went': 0.31; 'too.': 0.31; '>>>>': 0.31; 'end,': 0.31; 'flying': 0.31; 'origin': 0.31; 'pascal': 0.31; 'wright': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'probably': 0.32; 'award': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'weeks': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'not.': 0.33; 'sense': 0.34; 'knows': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'no,': 0.35; 'test': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'largely': 0.36; 'maintained': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'thanks': 0.36; 'responsible': 0.36; 'received:10.0': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'received:10': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'received:17': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; "couldn't": 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'course': 0.61; 'refer': 0.63; 'today': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'great': 0.65; 'modeling': 0.65; 'url:pdf': 0.68; 'caused': 0.69; 'fact,': 0.69; 'respect': 0.70; 'computers': 0.72; 'designers': 0.74; 'gotten': 0.74; 'actually,': 0.84; 'header:In- reply-to:1': 0.84; 'how.': 0.84; 'subject:Testing': 0.84; '2013,': 0.91; 'mistake': 0.91; 'pioneering': 0.91; 'rusi': 0.91; 'simulation': 0.91; 'stood': 0.93; '2013': 0.98 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.10.8794,1.0.431,0.0.0000 definitions=2013-10-31_08:2013-11-01,2013-10-31,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1308280000 definitions=main-1310310266 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.6 \(1510\)) Subject: Re: Error Testing From: William Ray Wing In-reply-to: Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:27:33 -0400 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable References: <33549834-2f27-47f3-abea-eb3486909dec@googlegroups.com> <9e734f2b-9bcd-47d8-adb9-de6501fa6e7d@googlegroups.com> <52717d82$0$1677$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl> <586c9c5d-d0d4-44c7-8454-94dcfc128318@googlegroups.com> To: "python-list@python.org" , Neil Cerutti X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) Cc: William Ray Wing X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 62 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1383275411 news.xs4all.nl 15864 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35173 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:58232 On Oct 31, 2013, at 1:17 PM, Neil Cerutti wrote: > On 2013-10-31, rusi wrote: >> On Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:50:27 PM UTC+5:30, Neil Cerutti = wrote: >>> wrote: >>>> This suggests that Pascal went against established practice. >>>> This is false. FORTRAN used =3D and that was a mistake caused by >>>> the language being hacked together haphazardly. >>> Respectfully, the designers of FORTRAN deserve more respect than >>> that characterization accords. >>=20 >> ??? >>=20 >> If I say: "My uncle -- a pilot -- knows more about flying >> planes than the Wright brothers" am I disrespecting the Wright >> brothers?? >=20 > No, of course not. >=20 >> The state of art shifts with time. Fortran was more pioneering >> than most languages that followed -- does not mean it got >> everything right. >=20 > They obviously couldn't have gotten everything right; they had to > work largely in a vaccuum. but in no sense were they haphazardly > throwing syntax together. They designed it as well as anyone at > the time knew how. It's stood the test of time, too. There's > probably a lot more FORTRAN in use and maintained today than > Wright Brothers airplane parts. ;) >=20 Actually, FORTRAN is probably responsible for more CPU cycles being = executed even today than most other languages. If you think about the = fact that most large scientific simulation codes (weather forecasting, = combustion modeling, finite-element modeling and so on), are still = FORTRAN based, and that those are the codes that occupy = multi-hundred-thousand-core petaflop class supper computers for weeks on = end, you have to respect its longevity. -Bill >> =46rom Backus Turing award speech: >>=20 >> Although I refer to conventional languages as "von Neumann >> languages" to take note of their origin and style, I do not, of >> course, blame the great mathematician for their complexity. In >> fact, some might say that I bear some responsibility for that >> problem. >>=20 >> = http://www.thocp.net/biographies/papers/backus_turingaward_lecture.pdf >=20 > Thanks for that reference. >=20 > --=20 > Neil Cerutti > --=20 > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list