Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Antoon Pardon Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Curious Omission In New-Style Formats Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 16:32:55 +0200 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <834b1cce-38dd-474c-8915-4ff1cd6b27ec@googlegroups.com> <57874385$0$1501$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shvccing.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87vb08xh3g.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87lh13xwnr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <578896B1.1030104@rece.vub.ac.be> <5788c151$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5788CCA6.90405@rece.vub.ac.be> <1468589955.2680993.667243833.4A729BDD@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5788F417.6030809@rece.vub.ac.be> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de tcInhP1bgSS48esG2/NS6wrqLR/Qo6kLf6xwy57utb1g== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.086 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.83; '*S*': 0.00; 'context': 0.05; 'received:134': 0.05; 'hill,': 0.09; 'literal': 0.09; 'things.': 0.15; 'afterwards': 0.16; 'afterwards.': 0.16; 'arbitrarily': 0.16; 'received:ac.be': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; "aren't": 0.22; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'fri,': 0.27; 'values': 0.28; 'horizontal': 0.29; 'mastery': 0.29; 'vertical': 0.29; '15,': 0.30; 'certainly': 0.30; 'convention': 0.30; 'received:be': 0.30; 'everyone': 0.31; 'this?': 0.34; 'could': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'assigned': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'no,': 0.38; 'progress': 0.38; 'mean': 0.38; 'subject:-': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'real': 0.62; 'virtually': 0.66; 'natural': 0.67; 'study': 0.70; 'jul': 0.72; 'backs': 0.84; 'climbing': 0.84; 'conversation': 0.84; 'layout.': 0.84; 'metaphor.': 0.84; 'pardon': 0.84; 'schreef': 0.84; 'universe': 0.84 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArMIAHYeUleGuA9G/2dsb2JhbABehFsBvRCGEgKCAAEBAQEBAWaEbAEBAQMBI1UGCwsYAgIFFgsCAgkDAgECAUUTCAKIIwixTY0+g1sBAQgCJYEBhSaETYUMgjWCWQEEmEWBV4xNiTOFaY9SVINwin4BAQE User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/38.8.0 In-Reply-To: <1468589955.2680993.667243833.4A729BDD@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: <5788F417.6030809@rece.vub.ac.be> X-Mailman-Original-References: <834b1cce-38dd-474c-8915-4ff1cd6b27ec@googlegroups.com> <57874385$0$1501$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shvccing.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87vb08xh3g.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87lh13xwnr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <578896B1.1030104@rece.vub.ac.be> <5788c151$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5788CCA6.90405@rece.vub.ac.be> <1468589955.2680993.667243833.4A729BDD@webmail.messagingengine.com> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:111474 Op 15-07-16 om 15:39 schreef Random832: > > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016, at 07:44, Antoon Pardon wrote: > >> No, that is what people come up with afterwards. If you just start a >> conversation about how people learn and how long it would take to get >> some mastery and how we could present progress in a graph, virtually >> everyone uses the conventional axes layout. > _Why_ do you think this? The natural way to graph progress vs effort is > to have progress on the horizontal access and effort on the vertical > axis, because that's what you get when you're climbing a literal hill, > the only context in the universe where "vertical" and "horizontal" > aren't arbitrarily assigned but are real spatial dimensions. No that is not the natural way. That is the way you pick afterwards if you want your graph to resemble the metaphor. But it is not the way people "naturally" graph these numbers, if the metafor was not put into their head in first place. Certainly not people who actually study these kind of things. > The only reason to do it the other way is an association with time and > the convention of using time for the horizontal axis. No the reason is, we prefer the graph to be a function. That is for every x at most one y. Using the axes the other way around would mean that set backs would result in multiple y values for the same x. -- Antoon Pardon.