Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.041 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.92; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '(first': 0.09; 'beginners': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; "wouldn't": 0.14; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'illusion': 0.16; 'models,': 0.16; 'shooting': 0.16; "someone's": 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'feb': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'creating': 0.23; 'fine': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'mention': 0.26; 'nearly': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'van': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; 'programming.': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'stuff': 0.32; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'created': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'beyond': 0.35; 'done.': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'programming,': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'effort': 0.37; 'too': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'fact': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'expect': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'functional': 0.39; 'heard': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'games,': 0.60; 'worry': 0.60; 'assets': 0.61; 'new': 0.61; 'simple': 0.61; 'companies': 0.62; 'real': 0.63; 'hours': 0.66; 'commercial': 0.71; 'heavy': 0.81; '2015': 0.84; 'madness': 0.84; 'scratch,': 0.84; 'albert': 0.91; 'graphical': 0.91; 'league': 0.91; 'procedural': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=MROgZ8iK7vyo9XHPIr1IacAktnzzuUDoMsT54kCZLxU=; b=UdBCKvoG/q2WljaB+s9/22Efn5a3QFWcATAwSxsM8oTFJ/VjDyYZcxX1A39GVDVlw0 yr7jv2EOrXUPPDfWZJF8feOfbk7wbJD4wr6Seo0s1RunxiNMkkGcAVAVbEH6cHF5iHb7 CaPoTQYGEVv+2ydY/bOOZPOkkBtyEbX8fhZdGVCf/qW+3PTYkI03TNX3qz7dy6T/dghp gC4VN4kBeWeRsUZZbrkLsfhLp7H+InYVtb7SzbUNlBzc6pOiuPVWq2kluOwifnymneyQ 80kMWvrCJZgh53cGphadMIVU1Ux3LyWBv+ng1Sd8d7elwNOoSAtDTVy8YKS/fxj0dgdF WYXQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.14.131 with SMTP id 125mr18623616ioo.53.1423357021497; Sat, 07 Feb 2015 16:57:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54d6a5b9$0$6901$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> References: <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87r3un8r0y.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <54d6a5b9$0$6901$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 11:57:01 +1100 Subject: Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1423357030 news.xs4all.nl 2888 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54172 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:85345 On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote: > Not to mention that mostly a game is understood, not as something like > chess, but an FPS (first person shooter) game. > But that is real time programming, one league beyond beginners > procedural (sequential) or functional programming. > The result is either a disappointment or the illusion of having created > something while in fact one used a frame work where all the hard work > has been done. Even worse, it's usually graphical. From what I've heard from companies and people that produce graphical games, there's at least as much work in creating assets (images, 3D models, textures, stuff) as there is in writing code. And that's before you even consider writing a storyline, which is something that I wouldn't expect a new programmer to worry too much about ("just go around shooting stuff up" makes a fine storyline), but which the best commercial games always put a lot of work into. (And it does improve the game significantly. I wouldn't have spent anything like as many hours on Alice: Madness Returns as I have if it didn't have the storyline it does.) If someone's going to create a game from scratch, it should probably be a puzzle game. Things like 2048 wouldn't take nearly as much effort as an FPS. Turn-based rather than real-time, no heavy graphics, a simple bit of randomness and only a few controls. Pretty straight-forward. ChrisA