Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.franciliens.net!news.muarf.org!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'parameters': 0.04; 'value,': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'compiler': 0.07; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'jan': 0.12; 'itself.': 0.14; 'language.': 0.14; 'accepts': 0.16; 'assembler': 0.16; 'compiler.': 0.16; 'foul': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'throw': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'later': 0.20; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'pointer': 0.24; 'looks': 0.24; 'gets': 0.27; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; '(this': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'could': 0.34; 'except': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'object,': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'structure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'entire': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'complete': 0.62; 'information': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.65; 'subject:! ': 0.74; 'returns.': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: Python is DOOMED! Again! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 17:40:32 +0000 References: <54c07d04$0$13012$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1939680766443642112.878725sturla.molden-gmail.com@news.gmane.org> <6eb91c4b-92ff-44a8-b5a9-6ef04c71f4cb@googlegroups.com> <35a40ec6-3763-448b-9ea4-4a233a04979b@googlegroups.com> <54c1ccc8$0$13005$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <54c6d7c2$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <54c731fc$0$2910$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> <1422379567.3283901.219591285.7786A63A@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-92-24-222-48.ppp.as43234.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 In-Reply-To: <1422379567.3283901.219591285.7786A63A@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1422380456 news.xs4all.nl 2856 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50848 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84656 On 27/01/2015 17:26, random832@fastmail.us wrote: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015, at 01:36, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> I consider return type to be part of the function signature. The >> signature >> of a function is the parameters it accepts and the result it returns. > > It's part of it, but not the whole of it, and early C compilers had no > information about the parameters except from the call site itself. You > could even call the same function multiple different ways (this was > later formalized with variadic functions). > Back to that old Whitesmith's compiler. It's certainly very interesting to see what the assembler looks like when you forget the ampersand, the compiler doesn't throw an error, and so the entire structure instead of a single pointer gets passed into your function. Not so much passed by value, or reference, or object, but complete foul up :) -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence