Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.016 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; '(0)': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'case.': 0.05; '*not*': 0.07; 'great.': 0.07; 'subject:help': 0.07; 'python': 0.09; 'deemed': 0.09; 'meaningful': 0.09; 'psf,': 0.09; 'spreading': 0.09; 'do,': 0.15; 'psf': 0.15; 'applies': 0.15; '"python",': 0.16; 'enough.': 0.16; 'err...': 0.16; 'googling': 0.16; 'intuition': 0.16; 'programmers,': 0.16; 'simplest': 0.16; 'subject:under': 0.16; 'trivially': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'typing': 0.17; '>>>': 0.18; 'subject:PSF': 0.20; 'foundation': 0.20; 'sort': 0.21; 'software.': 0.21; 'url:02': 0.22; 'url:amazon': 0.22; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'donate': 0.27; '"python"': 0.29; 'attempted': 0.29; "d'aprano": 0.29; 'defeating': 0.29; 'helpful.': 0.29; 'piece': 0.29; 'steven': 0.29; 'probably': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; '+44': 0.30; 'helpful': 0.30; 'seconds': 0.30; 'url:python': 0.32; 'help,': 0.32; 'european': 0.33; 'subject: -- ': 0.33; 'substantial': 0.33; 'surely': 0.33; 'venture': 0.33; 'word.': 0.33; 'anyone': 0.33; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.33; "can't": 0.34; 'done': 0.34; 'law,': 0.35; 'doing': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'thank': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'uses': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'help': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'you.': 0.61; 'office': 0.61; 'here:': 0.62; 'url:blogspot': 0.64; 'ltd': 0.64; 'grab': 0.64; 'legal': 0.65; 'taking': 0.65; 'url:co': 0.66; 'experts': 0.66; 'europe': 0.66; 'url:%3d': 0.69; 'subject:your': 0.74; 'money': 0.74; 'as:': 0.75; 'expenses,': 0.84; 'lawyer': 0.84; 'lawyer,': 0.84; 'loses': 0.84; 'received:77.245': 0.84; 'subject:needs': 0.84; 'url:2013': 0.84; 'documentary': 0.91; 'received:(may be forged)': 0.91; 'blog,': 0.93; 'url:url': 0.96; 'fight': 0.97 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 14:17:46 +0000 From: Giles Coochey User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130107 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Python trademark under attack -- the PSF needs your help References: <511d5caf$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <511e4077$0$29966$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> In-Reply-To: <511e4077$0$29966$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080403050803090205090000" X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.97.6 at smtp.netsecspec.co.uk X-Virus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 199 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1360937869 news.xs4all.nl 6867 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:37435 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:38921 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080403050803090205090000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15/02/2013 14:04, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Giles Coochey wrote: > > [...] >>> If you have documentation of European user groups, trade associations= , >>> books, conferences, scans of job advertisements for Python programmer= s, >>> software that uses some variation of "Python" in the name, etc. your >>> evidence will be helpful in defeating this attempted grab of the Pyth= on >>> name. >>> >> Err... >> http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=3Dnb_sb_noss_1?url=3Dsearch-alias%3Daps&= field-keywords=3Dpython >> >> One would think that is enough. > Giles, thank you for taking the time to respond, but I'm sorry to say t= hat I > don't think your response is helpful. Unless you are a trademark lawyer= , > your intuition about how trivially easy this will be is probably not go= ing > to be accurate. > > You would probably think it was presumptuous for a trademark lawyer to > venture an opinion on how easy it is to write some piece of software. T= he > same applies in reverse. We need to listen to the experts in European > trademark law, those who know what sort of evidence the European Tradem= ark > Office consider meaningful and significant. These people have told the > Python Software Foundation what needs to be done to fight this trademar= k > application, and trust me, "spend two seconds doing a search on Amazon"= is > *not* it. > > Dismissing the trademark grab as: > >> Surely and open/shut case. > is the simplest way to ensure that the PSF loses their appeal and the r= ight > to the name "Python" in Europe. > > If anyone has the sort of documentary evidence which the PSF has reques= ted, > and can scan and email them to the PSF, that will be helpful. If anyone= is > willing and able to donate money to the foundation to help with the leg= al > expenses, estimated at tens of thousands of dollars, to challenge this > trademark application, that will also be helpful. If you have a blog, > please consider spreading the word. > > The PSF needs all the help it can get, but it needs to be the sort of h= elp > set out here: > > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-= we.html > > If anyone is thinking of doing something trivially easy which anyone ca= n do, > such as googling "python", trust me, the PSF has already done it. The P= SF > is looking for the sort of help that they can't get by typing into a se= arch > engine. If anyone can help, that's great. If you can't help, then pleas= e > don't discourage those who can by claiming this is trivial. > > Thank you. > > In order to register "Python" in Europe it has to be deemed registrable=20 by OHIM. It is clearly not registrable as there is substantial prior use. --=20 Regards, Giles Coochey, CCNA, CCNAS NetSecSpec Ltd +44 (0) 7983 877438 http://www.coochey.net http://www.netsecspec.co.uk giles@coochey.net --------------ms080403050803090205090000 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIOTTCC BjQwggQcoAMCAQICAR4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwfTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwxFjAUBgNVBAoT DVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKzApBgNVBAsTIlNlY3VyZSBEaWdpdGFsIENlcnRpZmljYXRlIFNp Z25pbmcxKTAnBgNVBAMTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTA3 MTAyNDIxMDE1NVoXDTE3MTAyNDIxMDE1NVowgYwxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1T dGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSswKQYDVQQLEyJTZWN1cmUgRGlnaXRhbCBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBTaWdu aW5nMTgwNgYDVQQDEy9TdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIFByaW1hcnkgSW50ZXJtZWRpYXRlIENs 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