Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.044 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.92; '*S*': 0.00; 'startup': 0.05; 'subject:group': 0.05; 'reason,': 0.07; 'naturally': 0.09; 'prevents': 0.09; 'psf.': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'competitor': 0.16; 'competitors': 0.16; 'expression.': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'suppressing': 0.16; 'unlikely': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'comfortable': 0.22; 'creating': 0.23; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'effort.': 0.24; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'url:wiki': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'occurs': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'url:wikipedia': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; "we're": 0.32; 'url:org': 0.36; 'ben': 0.38; 'requiring': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'expression': 0.60; 'affect': 0.61; 'high': 0.63; 'field': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'god': 0.65; 'media': 0.66; 'effectively': 0.66; 'market': 0.66; 'between': 0.67; 'capable': 0.67; 'frequently': 0.68; 'watching': 0.68; '\xe2\x80\x93': 0.77; 'subject:this': 0.83; 'humanity.': 0.84; 'i\xe2\x80\x99ll': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; 'affairs': 0.91; 'costs,': 0.91; 'obligation': 0.91; 'government.': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Ben Finney Subject: Re: Random ALL CAPS posts on this group Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2015 07:31:19 +1100 References: <14af0873-c00f-4ff5-85a2-81028950714a@googlegroups.com> <38b9177e-e947-4a62-9823-554e5e266c4e@googlegroups.com> <54c23572$0$12977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jigong.madmonks.org X-Public-Key-ID: 0xAC128405 X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 517C F14B B2F3 98B0 CB35 4855 B8B2 4C06 AC12 8405 X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-pubkey.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:3pLlVHzw6SD+bA+4qjaM/sQxjUI= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1422045080 news.xs4all.nl 2940 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39443 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84398 Steven D'Aprano writes: > Ben Finney wrote: > > > Freedom of expression entails an obligation on the state to not > > quash anyone's expression. It does not affect anyone who is not the > > state; it imposes no obligation on the PSF. > > By this reasoning, you would be perfectly comfortable with a state of > affairs where a media monopoly suppressed any and all dissenting > viewpoints, provided that it was a *privately owned* monopoly and not > the government. To answer this more directly: Expression between people – the field relevant to the freedom we're discussing – occurs naturally and with little effort. It is not an activity requiring high startup costs, and the market for it is as large as humanity. A monopoly on media is inherently unstable for this reason, so a is highly unlikely ever to arise. Competitors will arise frequently to end the monopoly, if no state action is taken to stop them. If you are positing a media monopoly capable of suppressing any and all dissenting viewpoints, it can only persist in this because the state prevents any competitor to that monopoly. So this is still effectively the state acting to quash freedom of expression. -- \ “Now Maggie, I’ll be watching you too, in case God is busy | `\ creating tornadoes or not existing.” —Homer, _The Simpsons_ | _o__) | Ben Finney