Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Random832 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Curious Omission In New-Style Formats Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 09:39:15 -0400 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <834b1cce-38dd-474c-8915-4ff1cd6b27ec@googlegroups.com> <76762c79-a85d-48f1-8132-5decd10ce4f1@googlegroups.com> <57874385$0$1501$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shvccing.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87vb08xh3g.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87lh13xwnr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <578896B1.1030104@rece.vub.ac.be> <5788c151$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5788CCA6.90405@rece.vub.ac.be> <1468589955.2680993.667243833.4A729BDD@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de KoqFRC1/2A6nqV4f1i5G/w+L5KPbBjKZspLeLpadVsjQ== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.029 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.94; '*S*': 0.00; 'context': 0.05; 'hill,': 0.09; 'literal': 0.09; 'received:internal': 0.09; 'afterwards.': 0.16; 'arbitrarily': 0.16; 'message- id:@webmail.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'received:10.202': 0.16; 'received:10.202.2': 0.16; 'received:66.111': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'steep': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; "aren't": 0.22; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.24; 'fri,': 0.27; 'actual': 0.28; 'curve': 0.29; 'horizontal': 0.29; 'mastery': 0.29; 'vertical': 0.29; '15,': 0.30; 'convention': 0.30; 'everyone': 0.31; 'this?': 0.34; 'could': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'assigned': 0.36; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:10': 0.37; 'no,': 0.38; 'progress': 0.38; 'received:66': 0.38; 'subject:-': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'header :Message-Id:1': 0.61; 'show': 0.62; 'real': 0.62; 'virtually': 0.66; 'natural': 0.67; 'jul': 0.72; 'climbing': 0.84; 'conversation': 0.84; 'layout.': 0.84; 'pardon': 0.84; 'universe': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=k0RsDwCikZM7C4tBk+sJPgNfrfg=; b=ks+xzT vFHIIW+ibtctug3UD8lYVHe0SdYN+/VQBLx1fwLhrvXkkpo3IjQh0ZSIVeKxMnCs Rwa4seNsYHMWPKJFgKXcbXWeLc/216l9/jJD3VhBQpxPrb5IT95EZItWfRZVncOi zPlJ1DKLrZSho+C4DHS2+vgMEg+GZ8pRQ/aFE= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=k0RsDwCikZM7C4t Bk+sJPgNfrfg=; b=MuvI2azmSlZXnlWiEp7xAEqzKqWjwMXLhc0L/EE1QH9RNrz Jq9PYs1arUWaTvdbpg4IC3uXiOrWOH/LeEUjKcCb9656BTbWiOOi/pAHyufisuIU kdOrb69q5VqAiWOjU2voUvBzpvtCMLd7Hpp6moiJ7J6fd9azp8Kd1Fyomfcc= X-Sasl-Enc: ZyguCPqzxScU4eestmQWeTNjXO5wizkPtC7GK7/4xLeP 1468589955 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-bf4e2c8f In-Reply-To: <5788CCA6.90405@rece.vub.ac.be> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: <1468589955.2680993.667243833.4A729BDD@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Mailman-Original-References: <834b1cce-38dd-474c-8915-4ff1cd6b27ec@googlegroups.com> <76762c79-a85d-48f1-8132-5decd10ce4f1@googlegroups.com> <57874385$0$1501$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shvccing.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87vb08xh3g.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87lh13xwnr.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <578896B1.1030104@rece.vub.ac.be> <5788c151$0$1619$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5788CCA6.90405@rece.vub.ac.be> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:111473 On Fri, Jul 15, 2016, at 07:44, Antoon Pardon wrote: > No, that is what people come up with afterwards. If you just start a > conversation about how people learn and how long it would take to get > some mastery and how we could present progress in a graph, virtually > everyone uses the conventional axes layout. _Why_ do you think this? The natural way to graph progress vs effort is to have progress on the horizontal access and effort on the vertical axis, because that's what you get when you're climbing a literal hill, the only context in the universe where "vertical" and "horizontal" aren't arbitrarily assigned but are real spatial dimensions. The only reason to do it the other way is an association with time and the convention of using time for the horizontal axis. > This talk about swapped axes only come from people who used the steep > learning curve metaphor, when you then try to show them what an actual > steep learning curve implies.