Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '21,': 0.07; 'wednesday,': 0.07; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'ruby,': 0.09; 'violates': 0.09; 'martin': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'attracts': 0.16; 'cryptic': 0.16; 'discusses': 0.16; 'nail': 0.16; 'nightmare.': 0.16; 'readable': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'stdlib.': 0.16; 'titled': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; "python's": 0.19; 'meant': 0.20; 'seems': 0.21; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; 'sort': 0.25; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'robert': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'towards': 0.31; '2009,': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'lessons': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'could': 0.34; 'convert': 0.35; 'johnson': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'january': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; '(from': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'space': 0.40; 'release': 0.40; 'lost': 0.61; 'our': 0.64; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.65; '1st': 0.74; 'estate': 0.78; 'discover': 0.82; '2015': 0.84; 'headed': 0.84; 'intends': 0.84; 'attitude': 0.91; 'killed': 0.91; 'rick': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 06:30:49 +0000 References: <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5f6034ce-fbb0-4257-b876-858e6e35e8ce@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-92-24-222-48.ppp.as43234.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 In-Reply-To: <5f6034ce-fbb0-4257-b876-858e6e35e8ce@googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1421908264 news.xs4all.nl 2893 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57566 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84199 On 22/01/2015 02:11, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Wednesday, January 21, 2015 at 10:34:40 AM UTC-6, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> In 2009, Robert Martin gave a talk at RailsConf titled >> "What Killed Smalltalk Could Kill Ruby". (No cheering, >> that sort of attitude is one of the things that killed >> Smalltalk.) Although Martin discusses Ruby, the lessons >> could also apply to Python. > > Python is already headed towards obscurity. The fall began > with the release of Python3000 (from which we "might" have > recovered), but now it seems that GvR intends to drive the > final nail in python's coffin with this "type hinting" crap > that will convert Python syntax from a readable pseudo code > into a cryptic nightmare. > > Type hinting violates the very *ESSENCE* of what Python was > meant to be, that is: a "clean and intuitive syntax". The > cleanness of Python is what attracts people to it, and the > hook is set when they discover the breadth of the stdlib. > > If GvR brings this gawd awful type hinting idea to reality, > IT'S OVER! Python will be lost forever to history as just > another "interesting oddity". Time to call up the Robert > Ripley estate and request some space in his museum! > April 1st already? Or will Python be saved by RickedPython3? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence