Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'third-party': 0.04; 'base.': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'see.': 0.07; 'socket': 0.07; 'mind,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'scripting': 0.09; 'sure,': 0.09; 'tcp/ip': 0.09; 'toolkit': 0.09; 'variant': 0.09; 'gui': 0.12; 'jan': 0.12; 'wrote': 0.14; 'useful,': 0.14; '(it': 0.16; '(there': 0.16; 'bsd': 0.16; 'command-line': 0.16; 'higher-level': 0.16; 'letting': 0.16; 'message-id:@4ax.com': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'services;': 0.16; "where's": 0.16; 'so.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'passing': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'unicode': 0.24; 'url:home': 0.24; '(or': 0.24; 'equivalent': 0.26; 'handling': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'installed': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'feature': 0.29; 'besides': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; 'behind.': 0.31; 'further?': 0.31; 'libraries': 0.31; 'lot.': 0.31; 'spirit': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'extend': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'basic': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'much.': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'behind': 0.37; 'too': 0.37; 'operating': 0.37; 'today?': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'truly': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'address': 0.63; 'networking': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'feeling': 0.68; 'obvious': 0.74; '1990s,': 0.84; '2015': 0.84; 'etc,': 0.84; 'loses': 0.84; 'rexx,': 0.84; 'technically': 0.84; 'killed': 0.91; 'ports': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Dennis Lee Bieber Subject: Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 21:59:48 -0500 Organization: IISS Elusive Unicorn References: <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-108-79-217-84.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186 X-No-Archive: YES X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1421895589 news.xs4all.nl 2922 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:36628 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84176 On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 10:55:27 +1100, Chris Angelico declaimed the following: >Not sure about that. Back in the 1990s, I wrote most of my code in >REXX, either command-line or using a GUI toolkit like VX-REXX. Where's >REXX today? Well, let's see. It's still the native-ish language of >OS/2. Where's OS/2 today? Left behind. REXX has no Unicode support (it >does, however, support DBCS - useful, no?), no inbuilt networking >support (there are third-party TCP/IP socket libraries for OS/2 REXX, >but I don't know that other REXX implementations have socket services; >and that's just basic BSD sockets, no higher-level protocol handling >at all), etc, etc. Sure, it's not technically dead... but is anyone >developing the language further? I don't think so. Is new REXX code >being written? Not a lot. Yet when OS/2 was more popular, REXX >definitely had its installed base. It was the one obvious scripting >language for any OS/2 program. Languages can definitely die, or at >least be so left behind that they may as well be dead. > To my mind, what killed REXX is that most operating systems just don't support its key feature well: ADDRESS targets! When the only target turns ADDRESS into the equivalent of os.system() (or some variant of popen() ) it just loses too much. Besides the original mainframe implementation, I have a feeling only ARexx managed to maintain the spirit of REXX -- and that may have been as it was so easy to extend the native AmigaOS message passing IPC to create ARexx ports letting processes truly communicate interactively. -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/