Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.022 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '22,': 0.09; 'expense': 0.09; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'vast': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'jan': 0.12; '11:09': 0.16; 'filename:fname piece:signature': 0.16; 'garbage': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'thu,': 0.19; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'tend': 0.24; 'second': 0.26; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'motivation': 0.31; 'piece': 0.31; 'reward': 0.31; 'older': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'largely': 0.36; 'programming,': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'wrong': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'driving': 0.38; 'whatever': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'quote': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'received:173': 0.61; 'kind': 0.63; 'personal': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; 'become': 0.64; 'teach': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'six': 0.68; 'started.': 0.68; 'results': 0.69; 'long-term': 0.74; '2015': 0.84; 'motivations.': 0.84; 'old,': 0.85; 'that),': 0.91; 'taught': 0.96 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2015 17:44:35 -0800 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python References: <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <873873ae91.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ucMivmJhe9I8nV3u9WHWCpwkHHPKVhxU6" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 57 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1421891086 news.xs4all.nl 2853 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45603 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84170 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --ucMivmJhe9I8nV3u9WHWCpwkHHPKVhxU6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 01/21/2015 05:36 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Mario Figueiredo w= rote: >> "I want to become a programmer so I can make games" is, on the vast >> majority of cases, the quote of someone who will never become a >> programmer. Why should teachers reward that kind of thought? >=20 > How about "I want to become a programmer so my brother, 2.5 years > older than me, won't be better than me any more"? Should that kind of > thinking be rewarded? Because that's how I got started. My brother was > being taught the basics of programming, I was jealous (being the > second child will tend to produce that), and so at six years old, I > started learning to code. And then a few years later, I wanted to > learn C because my brother didn't know it (we'd both learned BASIC), > and since I didn't have a C compiler, I learned 8086 Assembly Language > instead, using DEBUG.EXE. Largely out of jealousy. There is a difference between /your/ motivation to learn something, and t= eachers /pandering/ to such motivations. There's nothing wrong with "I want to make games" as a personal driving f= actor, but the educational system should still teach decent programming, not whatever piece of garbage will produce quic= k results at the expense of long-term productivity. -- ~Ethan~ --ucMivmJhe9I8nV3u9WHWCpwkHHPKVhxU6 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUwFYEAAoJENZ7D1rrH75NDngP/Rxdsx2NDnaLPCkJBh4Scgjg ZPzaMuowUErHjssaHjUuxI/VEc5NpGMh2NkORq+jGeyJhsz00lWXFRa6IaKIytJQ o1dsHGye9UCroyunxwxkue/Mi0nQ5BArgq7+txZn5FiDW8W0csvam7XvHU3iezKj ChLSmHZw5NitlgcG03czZQOPCrDzrU9rCn4J8a7lUEdKbn3xrWozC7TLm/VxpZz0 348/cRN4RNOtxDU1ef0WBY3vaCuQfir3QEMoec88tvojS8VAPQKe0bEwhPfYMM3u kpvUyy+WY/XPhKjxF9qy0ByEtPKAYebgSoTA2eaujvSZDxjDC2LE/QLZb7dw2V/y jq504Uv0jadX4TtUbuvlaWYQPcefjwnWN2/bgdWWhs+myZ0NJFr4KJWECXNzOIrq Vj7sbc40lpz/Jg2gbGWM9X9/u8LfxxSVxxI3aJr5mAc0ggsxQxHxIZK6AMFDQ18F BZ2wjnthjgi+HuzmyQnxD/V27kfPt1gcS57ZqghW5ULZmSg1fCnjJWBvHQ+SJJEn p41pk/bRQIZR7WX6mn7h1sXEvM1SURwFJT54F0NYOhjgp3LGiqUf7CzZYUwh7zaY Tb54q9JlnvqszSyfTJ1bvr5NBL1creX2E9pLggw3dp1qM5K5pOWWmXJS6PaW3LMV s/Xm8wsmP5qQ8uZeyjvA =cql2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ucMivmJhe9I8nV3u9WHWCpwkHHPKVhxU6--