Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.mixmin.net!border2.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!usenetcore.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.019 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'startup': 0.05; 'script,': 0.09; 'subject:Why': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.10; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'duplicating': 0.16; 'examples?': 0.16; 'imo.': 0.16; 'reusable': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'test.': 0.17; 'code,': 0.18; 'module': 0.19; 'written': 0.20; "i'd": 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.23; 'purposes': 0.23; 'third-party': 0.23; 'installed': 0.23; "i've": 0.23; 'seems': 0.23; 'least': 0.25; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.25; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'setting': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'actual': 0.28; 'dan': 0.29; 'fast.': 0.29; 'measure': 0.29; 'stuff': 0.30; 'expect': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; "aren't": 0.33; 'directory,': 0.33; 'that,': 0.34; 'version': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'pm,': 0.35; 'subject:?': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'be.': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'why': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'things': 0.38; 'there,': 0.38; 'little': 0.39; 'subject:-': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'most': 0.61; "you've": 0.61; 'real': 0.61; 'situation': 0.62; 'different': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'jul': 0.65; 'advantages': 0.71; 'grow': 0.74; 'informative,': 0.84; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'site?': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=7OOPgJ+z1xtlOdt4fuUJekDGg3ODyfl30mZI25ntcQE=; b=wn5mTFSyp5SL7InvS3/zwke6A4YKBk1YKdJvuZMbgcMHu3iePo+xdxGNKsFq9VFhDb fd5xxhVmfZIjIIOXILgv5kN2d7xGq/d9JKC+Kxh/LQQt62tUHazz79uZ7hvFp+J0SpOy J+PXUMOk7W/XtG++a/NI5/J51j1PUEpcpmg3wRtmVnF/oLYuCoa1eZH5nJIx7P6r+RLU erD2YIf8I/tUgn3oOCF/NGgUmS1n9Qbl78YNlj1c9S0U6/X5pHB69HDX2WNdHhGVL9Z/ wRwwikIZKbWryK4SnPPjAFaWPPkMZkpMheF+1LkAnFbCDpU15+LwdImSrZnMGyCvqWmJ t7cg== MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: From: Ian Kelly Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:04:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Why site-packages? To: Dan Stromberg Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Python List X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1341353116 news.xs4all.nl 6985 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41308 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:24837 On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote: > If it was intended to be reusable code, I'd think it -should- go in > site-packages. > > But so much code in site-packages isn't intended to be reusable. Can you give some examples? Looking through my site-packages directory, everything in there is either used by multiple applications or at least has the potential to be. Frankly, if you've installed a third-party package and written your own code against it, even if only in one little script, isn't that already reuse? > And even for stuff that's reusable, there are advantages to just duplicating > them for the purposes of each application, because you never know when one > of them is going to need a different version from another. Definitely a situation for virtualenv, IMO. >> The site module has to process any .pth files in the site-packages, >> but apart from that, I think the actual amount of stuff in >> site-packages should be irrelevant. > > Irrelevant to what? More stuff in site slowing things down? Are .pth's > not correlated with more stuff in site-packages? Aren't they actually a > thing In site? Yes, but I just don't expect the .pth files to grow that fast. I've got something like 30 packages in my site-packages and only 6 .pth files, and most of those are one-liners. Right now this all seems highly speculative to me. I think it might be informative, either to you or to me, to do an actual timing test. Why don't you try setting up two side-by-side installations of Python, one with all the site-packages cruft, and one trimmed down to only what you think should be in there, and see if you can measure a real difference in startup time?