Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.022 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; '"this': 0.03; 'argument': 0.05; 'definitions': 0.07; 'definitions.': 0.07; '[0,': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '1e-100': 0.16; 'behavior,': 0.16; 'defined,': 0.16; 'zeroes': 0.16; 'all.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'thu,': 0.19; 'not,': 0.20; '>>>': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'performing': 0.26; 'values': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'subject:numbers': 0.31; 'subject:other': 0.31; 'values.': 0.31; 'says': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'mapping': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'then,': 0.60; 'numbers': 0.61; 'choose': 0.64; 'within': 0.65; 'natural': 0.68; 'continuous': 0.68; 'bag': 0.74; 'behavior': 0.77; 'counts': 0.83; '2015': 0.84; 'demanded': 0.84; 'premise': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=UtXC2MNbXad/wbmpodv5JRiLYQPOTQGpKb9GDgshfvM=; b=WfsmBJ7Zggcqo+Pj2d7ZpF3eaZaAgeW0QKt71VolovTTPzax6T44BGEmYar83o29CE a2fYhZ0Zzn7JFdyPbSVCfFBbdSdbAq1bV5k1GA6sCecZH1V6RoCaveQcvVqx6dvk7H5j xQfkrQOyTzLY+SvEaQAcaAS5jO2peDkCD7Eb86kSohCqzr7JPMk6etJ/gTBStvxlGfrN 81IE/vASTk9oS+U6x1ExRSSq0ovuwrgL1vlqgL2ioQ0ROYlPcKaeefBAg2f/rf69+lOC +AoabaaATkMQPVLN14ytkMe1vYJ0xsAVaQWU3A/uDjTVQ0Wq6Gf/b10u8fBv6h3OXWIY IrsQ== X-Received: by 10.140.91.201 with SMTP id z67mr23378120qgd.27.1420793551964; Fri, 09 Jan 2015 00:52:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87a91s1kh4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> References: <54AF405C.6020609@davea.name> <87a91s1kh4.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> From: Devin Jeanpierre Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 00:51:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Decimals and other numbers To: Marko Rauhamaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: "comp.lang.python" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1420793559 news.xs4all.nl 2847 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60694 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:83413 Marko, your argument is "this function x**y(a, x) must be continuous on [0, inf), and to be continuous at 0, 0**0 must be a". Since there are many possible values of a, this is not a "justification", this is a proof by contradiction that the premise was faulty: x**y(a, x) doesn't have to be continuous after all. 0**0 is 1, which makes some functions continuous and some functions not, and who cares? It's 1 because that's what is demanded by combinatorial definitions of exponentiation, and its origins in the domain of the natural numbers. Knuth says that thought of combinatorially on the naturals, x**y counts the number of mappings from a set of x values to a set of y values. Clearly there's only one mapping from the empty set to itself: the empty mapping. Number theory demands that performing multiplication among an empty bag of numbers gives you the result of 1 -- even if the empty bag is an empty bag of zeroes instead of an empty bag of fives. The result does not change. Either of those ideas about exponentiation can be thought of as descriptions of its behavior, or as definitions. They completely describe its behavior on the naturals, from which we derive its behavior on the reals. -- Devin On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Devin Jeanpierre : > >> If 0**0 is defined, it must be 1. > > You can "justify" any value a within [0, 1]. For example, choose > > y(a, x) = log(a, x) > > Then, > > lim y(a, x) = 0 > x -> 0+ > > and: > > lim[x -> 0+] x**y(a, x) = a > > For example, > > >>> a = 0.5 > >>> x = 1e-100 > >>> y = math.log(a, x) > >>> y > 0.0030102999566398118 > >>> x**y > 0.5 > > > Marko > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list