Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.012 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.04; 'output': 0.05; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; '>>': 0.16; 'permitted.': 0.16; 'relevance': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'subject:] ': 0.20; 'input': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'shell': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'load': 0.23; 'skip': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; '>': 0.26; 'handling': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'program,': 0.31; 'pipe': 0.31; 'stuff': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'level.': 0.33; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'example,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'level': 0.37; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'numbers': 0.61; 'maximum': 0.63; 'details': 0.65; 'attention': 0.75; 'low': 0.83; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'redirecting': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=6GGI5xtwwP/fxB6BMUFUsaEm6h9YtM1yuggMmW5DI4o=; b=ngzqJ2W0D48w0o+LDUE/5EKgYi+vEEhfjujb4IAwjxir3wLmKjRwR5bj/Shp8hmW/B q85JcTRj0UXaRp+17X3y65JVTmPte3NUbKdrZ1ZAIRmihaIVrKMVAaXKS40v+3MXldGj z9nz+qXq8J+qoHuQVtB0dGiSAn+R+NFgEJpwPM1q3Ljf+11wOaXjehrgpwlqD7kDI/LB B8NpaATzLrdC9Amw3xI9oa5jY7Xk2b7nnVnoii8vA5BLdOuol8exvdpkHuCR2lSPHZOu aQoZnfaWxbhMeGoY3J4zjl1sHrtX6vbbQjKw6i79YWcWZEI52UCsr85n8USNaT0qlAp1 Qo+Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.67.4 with SMTP id p4mr12354861qci.44.1368640174254; Wed, 15 May 2013 10:49:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5190b049$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Wed, 15 May 2013 18:49:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [Off topic] Software epigrams From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Santos?= To: Neil Cerutti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2ef7869927804dcc55ff6 Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 72 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1368640178 news.xs4all.nl 15931 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:36631 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:45361 --001a11c2ef7869927804dcc55ff6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 15 May 2013 18:29, "Neil Cerutti" wrote: > > On 2013-05-13, F?bio Santos wrote: > > > > On 13 May 2013 19:48, "Neil Cerutti" wrote: > >> > >> On 2013-05-13, Skip Montanaro wrote: > >> >> 8. A programming language is low level when its programs > >> >> require attention to the irrelevant. > >> >> (...) > > It's not a tautology in disguise. Irrelevant != low level. When > > low level details are relevant to the scope of my program, I > > use a low level language. > > It is a tautology is disguise. When you use a low level language, > low level details are relevant to the scope of your program. > > -- > Neil Cerutti > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list I don't see it that way. I think relevance and level are two unrelated concepts. For example, in python you are handling irrelevant things if you are trying to start a program and redirecting its standard output into another program's standard input instead of just using the shell and a pipe to do it. And in C you are just at the right level to write something for a microchip, but then again you are doing a load of irrelevant stuff if you need to work numbers larger than the maximum permitted. --001a11c2ef7869927804dcc55ff6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1


On 15 May 2013 18:29, "Neil Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> wrote:
>
> On 2013-05-13, F?bio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 13 May 2013 19:48, "Neil Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2013-05-13, Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> >> 8. A programming language is low level when its programs
> >> >> require attention to the irrelevant.
> >> >>

(...)

> > It's not a tautology in disguise. Irrelevant != low level. When
> > low level details are relevant to the scope of my program, I
> > use a low level language.
>
> It is a tautology is disguise. When you use a low level language,
> low level details are relevant to the scope of your program.
>
> --
> Neil Cerutti
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I don't see it that way. I think relevance and level are two unrelated concepts.

For example, in python you are handling irrelevant things if you are trying to start a program and redirecting its standard output into another program's standard input instead of just using the shell and a pipe to do it.

And in C you are just at the right level to write something for a microchip, but then again you are doing a load of irrelevant stuff if you need to work numbers larger than the maximum permitted.

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