Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Ben Finney Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: What is a function parameter =[] for? Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 15:56:40 +1100 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <56550273$0$1585$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5655f27b$0$1614$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <6imd5b9it55sucrcl95o95tppro7errfsi@4ax.com> <5657b30d$0$1600$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5657c376$0$1618$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de z9WD7QoquB8CPj/1qYcajQ3xcXhDci+UNLX9fphAo/HA== Cancel-Lock: sha1:auxhiT4S6mufXh1a0ynl5OFd07U= Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'chunk': 0.07; 'pypy': 0.07; 'api': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'thread': 0.10; 'python': 0.10; 'expected,': 0.16; 'ids.': 0.16; 'imo.': 0.16; 'jython,': 0.16; 'rather,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'memory': 0.17; 'refers': 0.18; 'programmer': 0.18; '2015': 0.20; 'object.': 0.22; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'sense': 0.26; 'fri,': 0.27; 'actual': 0.28; 'preserve': 0.29; 'connection': 0.30; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'definition': 0.34; 'nov': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'actions': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'thanks': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'anything': 0.38; 'mean': 0.38; 'or,': 0.38; 'expressed': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'real': 0.62; 'here.': 0.62; 'media': 0.67; '8bit%:21': 0.70; 'skip:\xe2 10': 0.70; 'special': 0.73; '_o__)': 0.84; 'received:125': 0.84; 'corporations': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jigong.madmonks.org X-Public-Key-ID: 0xAC128405 X-Public-Key-Fingerprint: 517C F14B B2F3 98B0 CB35 4855 B8B2 4C06 AC12 8405 X-Public-Key-URL: http://www.benfinney.id.au/contact/bfinney-pubkey.asc X-Post-From: Ben Finney User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:99625 Steven D'Aprano writes: > On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 12:40 pm, Ben Finney wrote: > > > It's still not been expressed what “fake” refers to here. Or, rather, > > what “real” thing was being expected, and how these don't qualify. > > They are faked in the sense that in this implementation, the object > lifespan that you think of as the Python programmer has little if any > connection to the actual lifespan of the chunk of memory representing > that object. Since that's nothing to do with the definition nor API of an object ID, I think all the uses of “faked” so far in this thread just don't apply to PyPy's object IDs. > The PyPy implementation has to take special actions to preserve the ID > across object recreations. That is what I mean by "faked". Thanks for the interesting explanation. I don't think any of this makes PyPy's object IDs in any sense not-real-object-IDs, so I disagree with using “faked” to characterise them. None of CPython, Jython, PyPy, etc. have object IDs that are anything but real object IDs, IMO. -- \ “[Entrenched media corporations will] maintain the status quo, | `\ or die trying. Either is better than actually WORKING for a | _o__) living.” —ringsnake.livejournal.com, 2007-11-12 | Ben Finney