Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.018 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.04; 'interpreter': 0.05; 'context': 0.07; 'inserts': 0.09; 'stating': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; '>>': 0.16; 'delimiters': 0.16; 'right:': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'subject:] ': 0.20; 'memory': 0.22; 'programming': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'skip': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; '>': 0.26; 'first,': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'program,': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'indentation': 0.31; 'figure': 0.32; 'stuff': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'level.': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'level': 0.37; 'skip:& 20': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'liked': 0.60; 'management.': 0.61; 'details.': 0.61; 'matter': 0.61; 'details': 0.65; 'attention': 0.75; 'low': 0.83; 'irrelevant': 0.84; 'layout.': 0.84; 'reflection': 0.84; 'absolutely': 0.87; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KDqufHnL7Mkz6TQgbPVjNDxRCptBV1oJEhms5ZozFrA=; b=nsCNPIcWwk1IjvRxWAdLQE3livu3LtNL2erdUt9RflE3Xr8L4Ga1SczeRxxplFl/yb 8RMwEMJEK/IcqQzR0NIqUkRN6Nhqh6ynaW1e05GDQkDAqpAOvA0HfzrMOKGGGa78jnoY ahX2vjQIEdCJAkM0JLb598y5QHLOxOc9ftVHl0f2Tshnqg/9CKi//BDi4nsmZG9jodWZ sag93KpkuFHg5O6aQuoQVXBMgDkH9MllR/0TUPKwCl8PbA83rPRapRx1fKIaJUaZKjE2 NgJ51HAUA6+2mJrTkIoadMD0jGPx+F2Z6KCHyIpTL+sAB6ryMw3qIqV9Faav4ZJJX1Un t5XA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.101.84 with SMTP id fe20mr2824675qeb.59.1368478163159; Mon, 13 May 2013 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5190b049$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Mon, 13 May 2013 21:49:23 +0100 Subject: Re: [Off topic] Software epigrams From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?F=E1bio_Santos?= To: Neil Cerutti Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2d89ecc53e204dc9fa669 Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 62 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1368478473 news.xs4all.nl 15881 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46063 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:45263 --001a11c2d89ecc53e204dc9fa669 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 13 May 2013 19:48, "Neil Cerutti" wrote: > > On 2013-05-13, Skip Montanaro wrote: > >> 8. A programming language is low level when its programs > >> require attention to the irrelevant. > >> > >> So much a matter of debate. Indentation is irrelevant, why > >> should Python programs pay attention to it? Block delimiters > >> are irrelevant too, the interpreter should be able to figure > >> them out from the code layout. But this one is absolutely > >> right: > > > > I think "irrelevant" in this context means stuff like memory > > management. > > I thought I liked that one at first, but upon reflection it > speciously inserts the word "irrelevant" in order to avoid > stating a tautology: A programming language is low level when its > programs require attention to low level details. > > -- > Neil Cerutti > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list It's not a tautology in disguise. Irrelevant != low level. When low level details are relevant to the scope of my program, I use a low level language. --001a11c2d89ecc53e204dc9fa669 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1


On 13 May 2013 19:48, "Neil Cerutti" <neilc@norwich.edu> wrote:
>
> On 2013-05-13, Skip Montanaro <skip@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> 8. A programming language is low level when its programs
> >> require attention to the irrelevant.
> >>
> >> So much a matter of debate. Indentation is irrelevant, why
> >> should Python programs pay attention to it? Block delimiters
> >> are irrelevant too, the interpreter should be able to figure
> >> them out from the code layout. But this one is absolutely
> >> right:
> >
> > I think "irrelevant" in this context means stuff like memory
> > management.
>
> I thought I liked that one at first, but upon reflection it
> speciously inserts the word "irrelevant" in order to avoid
> stating a tautology: A programming language is low level when its
> programs require attention to low level details.
>
> --
> Neil Cerutti
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

It's not a tautology in disguise. Irrelevant != low level. When low level details are relevant to the scope of my program, I use a low level language.

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