Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.mixmin.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'cpython': 0.05; 'dict': 0.09; 'sep': 0.09; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'iteration': 0.16; 'relied': 0.16; 'unordered': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; "shouldn't": 0.17; 'stefan': 0.17; 'tend': 0.17; 'subject:] ': 0.19; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'am,': 0.27; 'operations,': 0.27; 'set.': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'run': 0.28; 'dictionary': 0.29; 'hash': 0.29; 'case,': 0.29; 'structure': 0.32; 'true.': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; "can't": 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'christian': 0.34; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'received:209': 0.37; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; '30,': 0.62; 'ever': 0.63; 'become': 0.65; 'truth': 0.75; 'technically': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=Q6YSygo3HruFVqAKFp7fKNWIbVOHbPq0oKvp2Ai66a4=; b=gps1SNpAD3DMTAZQywF20oKsuHWI9eFiaoTfr1TV1n5EUiw9Ebvpp790jFMJwtm0n5 3bmZA6+2uCro5LAKoSqkQaBr32X552/Ch8LxDjbYzaRspEYAyJvq02ZD2nODjzMPopkQ CiRo8lC6vGGRtHtGG9SyFVmsAM2VFQl2FgBlzMbCX34CXUlknDvppJr/5QbW9po562pB qqY9RgAT1Z6lc44iZPH0cQP5s3bJojziG9s6+oCQF98Z6ZE6q0jRFHzOl5Vh3xCfLjGe 6WliQ0+yfWs8ivKFqVr3voeY3pf62rq3SI2ZXbdLzTg90QdX/Dja7f+PHERPeWaF+RKS YAKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <5066E72E.2010100@python.org> Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 00:25:02 +1000 Subject: Re: [RELEASED] Python 3.3.0 From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1348928706 news.xs4all.nl 6969 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50612 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:30501 On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Christian Heimes, 29.09.2012 16:06: >> From now on you can't rely >> on the order of an unordered type like dict or set. > > Tautologies tend to be true even without a temporal qualification. Technically people shouldn't ever have relied on the order, but until hash randomization came in, the order in CPython was actually predictable - for a given set of dictionary operations, the internal structure was determinate, and the consequent iteration order would be consistent. Now that that's no longer the case, "unordered" really means "unordered", and the order can change from one run of a program to another. So it may be a tautology in theory, but not in practice..... until now. Truth has become true. ChrisA