Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Refactoring in a large code base Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 22:19:04 +1100 Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <87bn8ec90z.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <93ffa9a5-b245-414e-b255-7f182e22e799@googlegroups.com> <874me5digp.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de C/cMpoyESocfPYUqMXdxIQOCVEwGV8aNOAHhgwD3AkOw== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.007 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'cpython': 0.05; 'sanity': 0.07; 'subject:code': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; '22,': 0.09; 'mess': 0.09; 'jan': 0.11; '2016': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'program?': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'drawing': 0.18; 'shipped': 0.18; 'steve': 0.18; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'developers.': 0.22; 'code.': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'developers': 0.26; 'fri,': 0.27; 'product.': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; '"do': 0.29; 'code': 0.30; 'source': 0.33; 'designs': 0.33; 'similar': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'propose': 0.35; 'too': 0.36; 'lines': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; 'doing': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; "didn't": 0.39; 'back': 0.62; 'management': 0.64; 'experience.': 0.66; 'power': 0.72; 'skill': 0.76; '9:19': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'subject:base': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=g4UZPCKUKJ6t56E5xUrDzgnzC46nLn0dy84cw4dHsrU=; b=qQeCVLl9kyFPiHauDEPpoHuI66ZbFm4Dm+vZsh6nwY/FZWrjAAA5P5WzLmTQuV8q/h 4IuQvtzQ8THp4+qQhjNIIwGDbDij5JDTS/6XDw2hYsnMeA4RwAm0daiJlQGVcugPeIgG II6a823GDON8irJNoM60Va7LG6etalAZwZrxGVrmCxmYHKNpT+c/EPJ2tOlXhbK7m4Jt 5NpEz00uz0632zSOLrBDIoAsKgOs+x7/FdJ98kEdvEXWA+OkJlLIxgzaItFY+LKOAx7d RfzcwGgJhPA5edw+SnHQU/gNT1Eq3VW8DXy1dqMh4j33vbsQQnQbP94RjRNLlTrsKEk8 TgAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc:content-type; bh=g4UZPCKUKJ6t56E5xUrDzgnzC46nLn0dy84cw4dHsrU=; b=kNwwK6KwMT7z0/GSrjPAA+7Leu1SbUp9aAYYRXddZR3MZrNbW3wj6/m11OG74Vd8ZY cnWlgdWU3ox5e9oMD1W2QUcENrdV7qkwr7n3s4PHW14Ku6+beYaXGS8dLT/tp6TZykJ+ D/PZV5YTJcjo39Ovb58Xn7GMPhXmI7WQn9kxLzGyV+UVoKnRgoY+pziV5avyl4NufxL8 wreEOVcoGTNjeCCUdfYugNE3W0/d+1tqtxl5SUyLjoXTmz0jh/2zeTrbH9zFKOxQXuCf DdzFElb1EgqP7KzAwXgzimRe50bHiZHeA8AfbgS8SLkqdrbNAayjEinEncK/9UTGN4tv kP+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSgnKiFBZ76R5VMtCwWvt/PGjr5r0Mo3x2PKg0vbtjySEfaD2OXRLJpMMziy0qeBPdZ2H9WVzkcochIDA== X-Received: by 10.50.66.179 with SMTP id g19mr3130423igt.94.1453461544889; Fri, 22 Jan 2016 03:19:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <874me5digp.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:102000 On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > The knowhow, vision and skill is apparently very rare. On the product > management side, we have the famous case of Steve Jobs, who simply told > the engineers to go back to the drawing boards when he didn't like the > user experience. Most others would have simply surrendered to the > mediocre designs and shipped the product. > > We need similar code sanity management. Developers are given much too > much power to mess up the source code. That's why "legacy" is considered > a four-letter word among developers. So what do you do with a huge program? Do you send it back to the developers and say "Do this is less lines of code"? CPython is a large and complex program. How do you propose doing it "right"? ChrisA