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From: Andriy Kornatskyy <andriy.kornatskyy@live.com>
To: Tarek Ziade <tarek@ziade.org>
Subject: RE: Fastest web framework
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:18:32 +0300
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Tarek=2C

My response inline to your:

> You are not getting my point. What happens to weezhy or XXX framework
> when you are running it in a given stack=2C under heavy load ?

let me correct you=2C it is wheezy.web (not `weezhy`).

Tell me your definition of web framework heavy load. If you have one=2C we
can try benchmark it.

> There are many interactions that may impact the behavior of the stack -
> most of them are in the web server itself=2C but they can be things in th=
e
> framework too=2C depending on the architectural choice.

The reason I choose uWSGI is due to minimal possible impact that applicatio=
n
server may cause. Since this component `equally influence` productivity
of each framework it can be to some degree ignored.

> And you will not know it with an hello world app. To put it more
> bluntly=2C your benchmark is going to join the big pile of hello worlds
> benchmarks that are completely meaningless.

Can not agree. This is just simple thing. Simple things should run
fast=2C no doubt. If you can provide a better idea as to which framework
calls to put into benchmark=2C=A0I will be happy extend the benchmark case.

> If you want to prove that weezhy is faster than another py framework=2C
> because=2C I dunno=2C the number of function calls are smaller ? then you
> need to isolate this and
> do a different kind of bench.
>
> Have a look at http://plope.com/pyroptimization =2C it's a good example

The numbers provided in that article are incorrect. They didn't match resul=
ts
from the file they provide (result.txt in each framework dir) at the time=
=A0
of writing.

I have used that idea to re-run things (isolated benchmark=3B report with=
=A0
total time=2C total number of calls and number of distinct functions used).
See here:

https://bitbucket.org/akorn/helloworld/src/tip/benchmark.py

I will update original post a bit later (to let you comment on this).

> Same thing for the raw speed of your templating engine - isolation is
> required.

Improved bigtable benchmark report by adding total number of calls and
number distinct functions used:
https://bitbucket.org/akorn/wheezy.template/src/tip/demos/bigtable/bigtable=
.py

Original post not updated yet.

> One good read:
> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2010/03/16/web-server-benchmarking-we-need/

Sounds not so bad. It points to some specific workloads. Any attempt to pri=
oritize
and/or practically implement them?

Thanks.

Andriy


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed=2C 26 Sep 2012 11:41:26 +0200
> From: tarek@ziade.org
> To: andriy.kornatskyy@live.com
> CC: python-list@python.org
> Subject: Re: Fastest web framework
>
> On 9/26/12 11:26 AM=2C Andriy Kornatskyy wrote:
> > Tarek=2C
> >
> > Thank you for the response back. Yes=2C your idea is pretty clear to me=
. The point is that higher workload you put in your application business lo=
gic=2C repository=2C backend=2C whatever... less you will see in final resu=
lts comparison. This is obvious and we=2C as technical people=2C very well =
understand this (somebody even laugh).
>
> I am happy somebody got a good laugh=2C I had a myself a good coffee :)
>
> > The reality is that not all web applications do heavy CPU computations =
and/or experience IO delays (due to response from database running a query =
over table that has no index=2C let say)=2C some use caches=2C some split j=
obs to be run in background=2C some parallel them... I have to state that s=
imple things must perform really fast to give more room for one that are no=
t so. That in turn makes your infrastructure more effective. Some prefer to=
 add a box=2C some see that a likely to be a problem further it goes. The g=
ood thing - you have a choice=2C you are not locked=2C and as result you ar=
e responsible for the effectiveness of the system you build today and defin=
itely next one.
> >
> > Take care.
> >
> > Andriy
>
> You are not getting my point. What happens to weezhy or XXX framework
> when you are running it in a given stack=2C under heavy load ?
>
> There are many interactions that may impact the behavior of the stack -
> most of them are in the web server itself=2C but they can be things in th=
e
> framework too=2C depending on the architectural choice.
>
> And you will not know it with an hello world app. To put it more
> bluntly=2C your benchmark is going to join the big pile of hello worlds
> benchmarks that are completely meaningless.
>
> If you want to prove that weezhy is faster than another py framework=2C
> because=2C I dunno=2C the number of function calls are smaller ? then you
> need to isolate this and
> do a different kind of bench.
>
> Have a look at http://plope.com/pyroptimization =2C it's a good example
>
> Same thing for the raw speed of your templating engine - isolation is
> required.
>
> One good read:
> http://blog.ianbicking.org/2010/03/16/web-server-benchmarking-we-need/
>
>
> Cheers
> Tarek
>
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Wed=2C 26 Sep 2012 11:08:19 +0200
> >> From: tarek@ziade.org
> >> To: andriy.kornatskyy@live.com
> >> CC: python-list@python.org
> >> Subject: Re: Fastest web framework
> >>
> >> On 9/25/12 3:21 PM=2C Andriy Kornatskyy wrote:
> >>> Tarek=2C
> >>>
> >>> With all respect=2C running benchmark on something that has sleeps=2C=
 etc is pretty far from real world use case. So I went a little bit differe=
nt way.
> >> That's not a good summary of what the function does. It does not just
> >> sleep. It does some I/O and CPU bound tasks. The sleep is here to
> >> simulate a blocking I/O call=2C besides the DB calls.
> >>
> >> The whole function tries to simulate a real application=2C unlike prin=
ting
> >> 'Hello World' - to put the stack under realistic conditions.
> >>
> >> The multiplication is cached by the processor=2C but will still push s=
ome
> >> CPU work on every call.
> >>
> >>> Here is a live demo (a semi real world web application) that comes wi=
th wheezy.web framework as a template:
> >>>
> >>> http://wheezy.pythonanywhere.com/
> >>>
> >>> I have implemented it in a way that it uses one web framework (wheezy=
.web) and various template engines (jinja2=2C mako=2C tenjin=2C wheezy.temp=
late and wheezy.template with preprocessor)... Please see the following pos=
t under `Real World Example` section:
> >>>
> >>> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html
> >>>
> >>> Source code here:
> >>>
> >>> https://bitbucket.org/akorn/wheezy.web/src/tip/demos/template
> >>>
> >>> The real world example shows the difference between template engines =
implementing the same things. The same applies to web frameworks (more or l=
ess depending on your choice).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >> Great=2C thanks for the update ! -- that's cool to bench the template
> >> engines=2C but this is still not what I had in mind.
> >>
> >> What I had in mind was to try each one of the framework with an
> >> application that does things=2C and see how the whole stack reacts on =
high
> >> load.
> >>
> >> But I guess we have different goals - wheezy seems really fast=2C cong=
rats.
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Tarek
> >>
> >>> Andriy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>> Date: Mon=2C 24 Sep 2012 13:50:31 +0200
> >>>> From: tarek@ziade.org
> >>>> To: python-list@python.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: Fastest web framework
> >>>>
> >>>> On 9/23/12 11:19 AM=2C Andriy Kornatskyy wrote:
> >>>>> I have run recently a benchmark of a trivial 'hello world' applicat=
ion for various python web frameworks (bottle=2C django=2C flask=2C pyramid=
=2C web.py=2C wheezy.web) hosted in uWSGI/cpython2.7 and gunicorn/pypy1.9..=
. you might find it interesting:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.ht=
ml
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Comments or suggestions are welcome.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andriy Kornatskyy
> >>>>>
> >>>> I would try this with a web app that does more than 'Hello World'
> >>>>
> >>>> You may argue that you're just trying the server stack=2C but that's=
 not
> >>>> realistic because you don't really measure how the server behaves wi=
th a
> >>>> real app.
> >>>>
> >>>> Have a look at
> >>>> https://github.com/mozilla-services/chaussette/blob/master/chaussett=
e/util.py#L188
> >>>>
> >>>> (setup_bench and teardow_bench have to be run on startup and tear do=
wn
> >>>> of the server)
> >>>>
> >>>> I would be curious to see how things goes then
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Tarek
> >>>> --
> >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> >
>
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