Path: csiph.com!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!bcyclone04.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone04.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'assigning': 0.09; 'global,': 0.09; 'module)': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'def': 0.13; '"write': 0.16; '(more': 0.16; '11:42': 0.16; 'advantage.': 0.16; 'dotted': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'globals.': 0.16; 'latter,': 0.16; 'statement!': 0.16; 'worse.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'app': 0.16; 'programmer': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'fix': 0.21; 'java': 0.22; 'sep': 0.22; 'trying': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; "python's": 0.23; 'sat,': 0.23; 'this:': 0.23; 'import': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'module': 0.25; 'chris': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'character': 0.29; 'that.': 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'another': 0.32; 'skip:_ 10': 0.32; 'michael': 0.33; 'languages': 0.34; 'that,': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'behind': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'level': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'one,': 0.37; 'things': 0.38; 'anything': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'still': 0.40; 'easy': 0.60; 'him': 0.60; 'your': 0.60; 'our': 0.64; 'concerns': 0.66; 'battle': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91; 'esteemed': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=cqzWzqdD6zHlcEyRYthe2tWPltm/wY9dWBMgvVOO8mM=; b=sk+K3C6I2ovND0oPnmrrvFNZodz3OKXhyUlITzuciKoaN8Az/Xyjv/r1jdskJURzIO q4yTXPFOMBalzRcz7oyUiP/sqLu03Hk/yZkukyeDtj2T7gaQP2j8pwtRdomUVHhYdSE/ JOvvMbEkPqxy+sMKi87XZCiZQnGo+emkWgwK57ZII0B53gcUynM9IVh63ukSkZ1mjT0w 4b+S4o12sQkpr8m9TpTbMnb+jmyCVcAAPXx9k81/zZtYlpAc7UFBbRtVsM3+7BR+kRC3 PJQwSzIiYH2n5pnfC+C6MMD89vF3ETu9mmJp1d/kbkLtZX/t29jjTUAtKsFckoMFKcX5 l2jA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.98.7 with SMTP id ee7mr12694042igb.13.1441418071058; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 18:54:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55EA487D.2010807@gmail.com> References: <58e0d1b5-a7ca-4811-9926-fba1b7ede83f@googlegroups.com> <55EA487D.2010807@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 11:54:30 +1000 Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1441418073 news.xs4all.nl 23759 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38883 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 5110 X-Received-Body-CRC: 97449022 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96038 On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 09/04/2015 06:27 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> If you want the first one, well, there are languages like that, and >> you're welcome to use those. For the latter, it's easy enough to do >> something like this: >> >> import types >> _g = types.SimpleNamespace() >> >> def accumulate(x): >> _g.accum += x >> return _g.accum >> >> Look, Ma! No global statement! > > Since most of the time for me when I need a global, I need it to be an > app global (more than just one module) and I use it to store > configuration. So I just use another module for that. > > import my_global_module as _g > > _g.some_setting = 5 Yeah. Comes to the same thing; if you use a dotted lookup, it's not assigning to the global. Of course, you still have all the other concerns about globals. You've just buried them behind a level of indirection. > I get the impression, thought, that our esteemed poster is still trying > to battle the Java windmill, but in Python now and will never accept > anything we try to tell him about the Python way. Python does have its > warts, but often attempts to fix the warts would just make things a lot > worse. So I accept them as part of Python's character and try to use > them to my advantage. Indeed. The key to being a good programmer is not "write your code despite the language you're using", but "write the code in the language you're using". ChrisA