Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.015 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'modified': 0.07; 'tool,': 0.07; 'wednesday,': 0.07; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'xml.': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'bug': 0.12; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'goal,': 0.16; 'guys,': 0.16; 'subject:XML': 0.16; 'subject:when': 0.16; 'all.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'wed,': 0.18; 'seems': 0.21; 'tests': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'handling': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'testing': 0.29; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'reporting': 0.29; 'xml': 0.29; 'see,': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'evil': 0.31; 'testing.': 0.31; 'yes.': 0.31; 'worked': 0.33; 'problem': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; "didn't": 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'integration': 0.37; 'unit': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'even': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'simply': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'more': 0.64; '2000': 0.65; '2015': 0.84; 'belief': 0.84; 'url:php': 0.85; 'why?': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; 'from.': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CnKdp/MTZnPQZ+UmjXZgaCaBE4g5toSO3EINymNWFiw=; b=nsltixdNaPunVlXZyd70tuzhDWBZ31362nR89+LwzzvmOOslOpFx+pSr4W0HbbnAv/ 4IUnDZx4Neka4uXHNYTqiCjQ37Ex9jqgNfHrGJ6aLLSCu9Jh8/uJ8zimmHi69M8wvV6D FnKjxUdybjg+cweFj1aZYrZO+D8zTvxdfjqgSMjtlGCz9Q0SMKgY6rEqnodsY6U5TUtx 8s81h3Am/pTPnj7d5L/Fy+pxYo41AMwSfF1+jgerEEG15auHyy2lBDjvAJw40AKQh963 UC89QPrmtWZCVfHw7iiWk1FYRoNcxzQTlyUgnEkbmENVp3rpY0oFfgg+xbVHAhK5Th5K k4IA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.160.202 with SMTP id j193mr37364446ioe.43.1430872178713; Tue, 05 May 2015 17:29:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <465c4e55-aa88-4df4-ae6c-2718c434de4d@googlegroups.com> References: <465c4e55-aa88-4df4-ae6c-2718c434de4d@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 10:29:38 +1000 Subject: Re: Is it normal to cry when given XML? From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1430872181 news.xs4all.nl 2853 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:51890 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:90018 On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 5:38:12 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> > When the two young lads from the consultants I was working with back i= n 2000 >> > found a bug with xml handling in the supplier's software I almost ende= d up >> > in tears. Why? They didn't bother reporting it, they simply modified= all >> > their unit testing data to work around the problem, so when we got to >> > integration testing nothing worked at all. >> >> See, that's not a problem with XML. That's not even a problem with >> unit testing. That's a problem with the belief that the most important >> thing is to have your tests pass. Sigh. >> > > I smell a PHB=C2=B9 in the wings... It seems likely, yes. That's where the "c'mon guys, get those tests to pass" impetus usually comes from. The geeks usually know that tests are a tool, not a goal, although the more evil ones might still wield that knowledge... http://bofh.ntk.net/BOFH/1998/bastard98-35.php ChrisA