Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'dev': 0.07; 'parser': 0.07; 'prefix': 0.07; 'think,': 0.07; 'python': 0.09; 'accepts': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:Why': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'subject:still': 0.09; 'tismer': 0.09; 'bug': 0.10; '"b"': 0.16; '"from': 0.16; '"u"': 0.16; 'backward': 0.16; 'construct.': 0.16; 'from:addr:behnel.de': 0.16; 'from:addr:stefan_ml': 0.16; 'from:name:stefan behnel': 0.16; 'message-id:@dough.gmane.org': 0.16; 'opposite': 0.16; 'perpetuity,': 0.16; 'py3': 0.16; 'received:188.174': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:mnet-online.de': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'require,': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:created': 0.16; 'subject:python2.7': 0.16; 'subject:python3': 0.16; 'subject:seperate': 0.16; 'subject:where': 0.16; 'symmetric': 0.16; 'wed,': 0.16; 'string': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.17; "shouldn't": 0.17; 'stefan': 0.17; 'code,': 0.18; 'changes': 0.20; 'import': 0.21; 'earlier': 0.21; 'statement': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.26; '(which': 0.26; '(as': 0.27; 'is?': 0.27; 'transition': 0.27; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.28; 'this?': 0.28; 'went': 0.28; 'chris': 0.28; 'boundary': 0.29; 'far.': 0.29; 'i/o': 0.29; 'overhead': 0.29; 'worked': 0.30; 'subject: ?': 0.30; 'function': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'print': 0.32; 'enhanced': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'christian': 0.34; 'pm,': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'received:org': 0.36; 'really': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'supporting': 0.37; 'drop': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'easier': 0.38; 'supports': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'enable': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'first': 0.61; 'duration': 0.62; 'production': 0.63; 'limit': 0.65; 'removal': 0.65; 'subject:there': 0.65; 'easier,': 0.84; 'long?': 0.84; 'revival': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Stefan Behnel Subject: Re: Why has python3 been created as a seperate language where there is still python2.7 ? Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 13:22:41 +0200 References: <1340509604.38915.YahooMailClassic@web164605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4fe92df1$0$29978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4FEADFB4.5090301@stackless.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-188-174-41-51.dynamic.mnet-online.de User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1340796181 news.xs4all.nl 6849 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46163 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:24501 Chris Angelico, 27.06.2012 13:02: > On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Christian Tismer wrote: >> I think, for the small importance of the print statement in code, it >> would have made the transition easier, if python 3 was as flexible >> as python 2.7, with a symmetric >> >> "from __past__ import print_statement" construct. > > For how long? Will Python require, in perpetuity, the code to support > this? Must the print statement be enhanced when the print function is? > What about bug fixes? How much dev time is required to enable backward > compatibility past a boundary across which backward compatibility was > not promised? And if there's a limit to the duration of this __past__ > directive, when should it be and what should happen after that point? > > Much easier to simply say no. I concur. For supporting something that shouldn't have been there in the first place, such as a print statement in production code, it's way too much overhead to keep it working despite of significant changes in the I/O layer that went into Python 3.x, including the removal of the soft-space "feature". For comparison, the revival of the "u" string prefix in Py3.3 is a simple change in the parser grammar that's easy to maintain but that has a huge impact on the Py3 compatibility of code that accepts to drop support for Py2.5 and earlier (as well as Py3.[012]) but wants to keep working in Py2.[67] (which supports the opposite "b" prefix). We've been supporting that in Cython for a while and it worked out really well so far. Stefan