Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!cs.uu.nl!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'adopted': 0.09; 'means,': 0.09; 'mixed': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'recommends': 0.09; 'runtime': 0.09; 'skip:/ 10': 0.09; 'runs': 0.10; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '"by': 0.16; '"python"': 0.16; "'''": 0.16; 'being,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'release:': 0.16; 'subject:ever': 0.16; 'url:fedoraproject': 0.16; 'yum,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'version.': 0.19; '>>>': 0.22; 'this?': 0.23; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; '2.x': 0.24; 'certainly': 0.24; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'switch': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'am,': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'url:wiki': 0.31; '3.x': 0.31; 'default,': 0.31; 'fedora': 0.31; 'libraries': 0.31; 'option)': 0.31; 'run': 0.32; 'linux': 0.33; 'community': 0.33; 'minimal': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'actual': 0.34; 'updated': 0.34; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'there': 0.35; 'version': 0.36; 'impression': 0.36; 'view,': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'starting': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'manager': 0.38; 'massive': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'environment.': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'hope': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'advanced': 0.63; 'decided': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'bothered': 0.68; 'default': 0.69; 'goal': 0.75; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'doubts': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'serious': 0.97 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Will Python 3.x ever become the actual standard? Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 17:00:12 -0400 References: <6e0bbc6b-9435-4a4b-8840-8a46cc4e0cc5@googlegroups.com> <526920c7$0$2268$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <52695958.6040202@nedbatchelder.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-59-117-133.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.0.1 In-Reply-To: <52695958.6040202@nedbatchelder.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 43 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1382648429 news.xs4all.nl 16000 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:53002 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:57471 On 10/24/2013 1:31 PM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > > On 10/24/13 9:29 AM, Damien Wyart wrote: >>> I am starting to have doubts as to whether Python 3.x will ever be >>> actually adopted by the Python community at large as their standard. >>> Years have passed, and a LARGE number of Python programmers has not >>> even bothered learning version 3.x. Why am I bothered by this? Because >>> of lot of good libraries are still only for version 2.x, and there is >>> no sign of their being updated for v3.x. I get the impression as if >>> 3.x, despite being better and more advanced than 2.x from the >>> technical point of view, is a bit of a letdown in terms of adoption. >> Some Linux distributions will certainly switch to Python 3 by default, >> sooner or later. Fedora has decided to do so for their 22 release: >> http://lwn.net/Articles/571528/ >> > > I'm not sure what "by default" means, I hope it isn't that "python" runs > Python 3.x. That causes massive confusion on Arch, and will make it > very difficult to support a mixed environment. It means that 3.x is always present (with 2.x an option) and Fedora's Python code works with the always-present version. The actual proposal (FEP? ;-): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default ''' The main goal is switching to Python 3 as a default, in which state: DNF is the default package manager instead of Yum, which only works with Python 2 Python 3 is the only Python implementation in the minimal buildroot Python 3 is the only Python implementation on the LiveCD Anaconda and all of its dependencies run on Python 3 cloud-init and all of its dependencies run on Python 3 ''' ... "Upstream recommends that /usr/bin/python point to Python 2 runtime for the time being, so if we go with that, there shouldn't be any serious compatibility impact: " -- Terry Jan Reedy