Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.060 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.88; '*S*': 0.00; 'developer,': 0.05; 'frameworks': 0.05; 'tests,': 0.07; 'agree,': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'ignore': 0.13; '(easier': 0.16; 'accident.': 0.16; 'kern': 0.16; 'refactoring': 0.16; 'robert,': 0.16; 'to:addr:robert.kern': 0.16; 'later': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'differ': 0.17; '+0000': 0.20; 'to:name:python-list@python.org': 0.20; 'skip:- 40': 0.21; 'bit': 0.21; 'thanks.': 0.21; 'earlier': 0.21; 'regardless': 0.21; 'driven': 0.22; 'interpret': 0.22; 'to:2**1': 0.23; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'donate': 0.27; 'date:': 0.29; 'url:mailman': 0.29; 'no,': 0.29; 'sense': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'point': 0.31; 'url:python': 0.32; 'support,': 0.32; 'url:listinfo': 0.32; 'from:addr:live.com': 0.33; 'problem': 0.33; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.33; 'nov': 0.35; 'path': 0.35; 'robert': 0.35; 'next': 0.35; 'subject:': 0.36; 'except': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'email addr:python.org': 0.36; 'method': 0.36; 'does': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'unit': 0.38; 'from:': 0.38; 'easier': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'gives': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'personally': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'email name:python-list': 0.62; 'respect': 0.63; 'world': 0.63; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.63; 'our': 0.65; 'choose': 0.65; 'overall': 0.66; 'believe': 0.69; '(based': 0.84; 'complexity': 0.84; 'eco': 0.84; 'etc),': 0.84; 'excessive': 0.84; 'terrible': 0.84; 'understand,': 0.84; 'drops': 0.91; 'picture': 0.96; 'charset:windows-1251': 0.97 X-Originating-IP: [194.44.213.194] X-EIP: [VMJO4Af/Wi+hODCrIRDKqvY/NgXIjnQt] X-Originating-Email: [andriy.kornatskyy@live.com] From: Andriy Kornatskyy To: , "python-list@python.org" Subject: RE: Web Frameworks Excessive Complexity Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:02:26 +0300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: , , , , , , , , , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2012 11:02:25.0973 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0AE6E50:01CDC7D7] X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1353495814 news.xs4all.nl 6880 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:52155 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:33714 Robert=2C You would never get a better product by accident. The meaning of better product might differ from team to team but you can no= t ignore excessive complexity. Earlier or later you get back to that code a= nd refactor it=2C thus=A0existence=A0of such fact was driven by your intent= ion to make it a bit better (easier to understand=2C to support=2C to cover= with unit tests=2C etc)=2C with a team of 20 heads you can get even furthe= r: the whole team=A0adherence. So those drops make the overall picture bett= er. This is what you=2C as a software developer=2C donate to what the final= better product become. Thanks. Andriy ---------------------------------------- > To: python-list@python.org > From: robert.kern@gmail.com > Subject: Re: Web Frameworks Excessive Complexity > Date: Tue=2C 20 Nov 2012 20:33:46 +0000 > > On 20/11/2012 20:22=2C Andriy Kornatskyy wrote: > > > > Robert=2C > > > > I respect your point of view and it definitely make sense to me. I pers= onally do not have a problem to understand CC but agree=2C method LoC is ea= sier to understand. Regardless the path your choose in your next refactorin= g (based on method CC=2C LoC) it gives your better product. > > No=2C refactoring based on CC does not give you a better product=2C excep= t by accident. > > -- > Robert Kern > > "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma=2C a harmless e= nigma > that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it= had > an underlying truth." > -- Umberto Eco > > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list =