Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder2.enfer-du-nord.net!newsfeed.eweka.nl!eweka.nl!feeder3.eweka.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'exception': 0.03; 'interpreter': 0.04; 'attribute': 0.05; 'stops': 0.07; 'vi,': 0.07; 'python': 0.09; 'already.': 0.09; 'attribute.': 0.09; 'club.': 0.09; 'exiting': 0.09; 'foo,': 0.09; 'oh,': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:still': 0.09; 'terry': 0.09; ';-)': 0.11; 'subject:python': 0.11; 'suggest': 0.11; 'do,': 0.15; "'real": 0.16; '(when': 0.16; '*i*': 0.16; 'desktop.': 0.16; 'gained': 0.16; 'happily': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'vim)': 0.16; 'settings': 0.16; 'later': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'hacking': 0.17; 'subject:need': 0.17; '(in': 0.18; 'jan': 0.18; 'shell': 0.18; '(or': 0.18; 'windows': 0.19; 'developer': 0.19; 'issue.': 0.20; 'do.': 0.21; 'runs': 0.22; 'programming': 0.23; 'least': 0.25; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'done.': 0.27; 'core': 0.27; '(as': 0.27; 'header:X-Complaints- To:1': 0.28; 'run': 0.28; 'editors': 0.29; 'perl': 0.29; "i'm": 0.29; "skip:' 10": 0.30; 'mode': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'switch': 0.32; 'idle': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.33; 'guys': 0.33; 'me?': 0.33; 'machines': 0.35; 'pm,': 0.35; 'subject:?': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'next': 0.35; 'list.': 0.35; 'received:org': 0.36; 'really': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'editor': 0.37; 'subject:New': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'object': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'sure': 0.38; 'gives': 0.39; 'instead': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'days': 0.60; 'real': 0.61; 'subject:, ': 0.61; 'love': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'therefore': 0.65; 'believe': 0.69; 'prompt': 0.78; "'foo'": 0.84; 'alike': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'subject:good': 0.84; 'window,': 0.84; 'drops': 0.91; 'have.': 0.95 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: New to python, do I need an IDE or is vim still good enough? Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 15:57:06 -0500 References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-251-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 43 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1356641861 news.xs4all.nl 6949 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49122 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:35651 On 12/27/2012 3:01 PM, mogul wrote: > 'Aloha! > > I'm new to python, got 10-20 years perl and C experience, all gained > on unix alike machines hacking happily in vi, and later on in vim. > > Now it's python, and currently mainly on my kubuntu desktop. > > Do I really need a real IDE, as the windows guys around me say I do, > or will vim, git, make and other standalone tools make it the next 20 > years too for me? We try to avoid religious issues on this list. Programming editors are a religious issue. Therefore ... ;-) Kidding aside, I am sure there is at least one core Python developer using vim (as well as emacs). I believe there are one or more 'customization files' (or settings packages? don't know proper term for vim) which you should be able to find if you have not already. Some 'real IDE' users consider IDLE a limited beginner's toy. I use it happily for what *I* do. I don't even use all the features if *does* have. The one thing I would suggest is to make sure that you can run a python file with the '-i' flag so that the interpreter drops into interactive mode and gives a prompt instead of exiting when done. Then, if you get an exception like AttributeError: 'Foo' object has no 'frobulate attribute and you know the Foo object is named foo, you can enter (in the interpreter) 'dir(foo)' and perhaps see that it *does* has a 'fribulate' attribute. (When IDLE runs the code in an editor window, it stops with an interactive prompt in the shell window, and one can then enter code such as above.) > Oh, by the way, after 7 days I'm completely in love with this python > thing. I should have made the switch much earlier! Welcome to the club. -- Terry Jan Reedy