Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <dreamingforward@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'syntax': 0.04; '(even': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'compiler': 0.07; 'front-end': 0.07; 'parser': 0.07; 'defines': 0.09; 'executable': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'above?': 0.16; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'code?': 0.16; 'janssen': 0.16; 'or)': 0.16; 'program?': 0.16; 'quoted': 0.16; 'relates': 0.16; 'to:addr:pearwood.info': 0.16; "to:name:steven d'aprano": 0.16; 'language': 0.16; '(not': 0.18; 'machine': 0.22; '>>>': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'certainly': 0.24; 'specifies': 0.24; 'stephen': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'to:2**1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'claiming': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'keywords,': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'subject:end': 0.31; 'says': 0.33; 'could': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'science,': 0.36; 'anything': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'read': 0.60; 'dave': 0.60; 'face': 0.64; 'love': 0.65; 'here': 0.66; 'other.': 0.75; 'exclusive': 0.81; 'inclusive': 0.84; 'relate': 0.84; 'this...': 0.84; 'washington.': 0.84; 'angel': 0.91; 'taught': 0.96
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=DGWVMWT1BSU4Ey8lZSMH/bCvnjKUT3vHjP91nM3Mu6I=; b=g4hRMqvwMHePnT0FdMSuARlzYbBJbTcaPmCsH/a6HZoL+3zMqZE5ENr7IcNnbgnyxL PYcafoYTKKbMgImpRF+FtTM2q1ozUWKP0hqFzB1Ourwgaaod3dGJhxCDGtmzZQPz/qQr ox7zBmEka0BkPnJ1hKEWPWZ+mzfsn6Hh4McRDSmthe2ye007Nr7XgUzEx1S4TTxkpYJM cdjiojyKi4MD2kDNdq0MSqJvGlfwdNGuiNiXv2PJV3afvSxO6b4pnJd38RqtoQRczP1B cIt4NaL/ksT7IGg+sEOXHEOI9mywBbVbb9LMx0XXj+1O+FJAbO1miHmAv+9W5lL9TV63 bshg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.13.174 with SMTP id i14mr15206683wic.49.1382454261947; Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:04:21 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <l44vhp$f51$1@ger.gmane.org>
References: <4012031f-5334-4be8-a673-e0d8c8917fb2@googlegroups.com> <5a4e0ec9-c977-4a86-83b0-9f4c55a82e37@googlegroups.com> <mailman.1319.1382387174.18130.python-list@python.org> <54f8eb09-7a2e-4306-86f2-7ae118fa8055@googlegroups.com> <mailman.1329.1382396650.18130.python-list@python.org> <m2haca2cjv.fsf@cochabamba.vanoostrum.org> <CAMjeLr9p9bE9g0PSAQN5_H0uQjOuBaq+_4Mj43Y3LCLNEY8n2A@mail.gmail.com> <l44vhp$f51$1@ger.gmane.org>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 08:04:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Python Front-end to GCC
From: Mark Janssen <dreamingforward@gmail.com>
To: Dave Angel <davea@davea.name>, "Steven D'Aprano" <steve@pearwood.info>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Cc: Python List <python-list@python.org>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.1356.1382454270.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 36
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1382454270 news.xs4all.nl 15890 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49057
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:57263

I love it.  Watch this...

[context]
>>> A language specification in BNF is just syntax. It doesn't say anything
>>> about semantics. So how could this be used to produce executable C code
>>> for a program? BNF is used to produce parsers. But a parser isn't
>>> sufficient.
>>
>> A C program is just syntax also.  How does the compiler generate
>> executable machine code?  Extrapolate into a Python front-end to C.

[Dave Angel responds:]
> Did you even read the paragraph you quoted above?  The BNF specification
> does NOT completely describe a language, it only defines its syntax.

[Steven D'Aprano responds:]
> Like every other language, C programs are certainly not *just* syntax.
> Here is some syntax:
>
> &foo bar^ :=

Now, I don't know where y'all were taught Computer Science, but BNF
specifies not only syntax (which would be the *tokens* of a language),
but also its *grammar*;  how syntax relates to linguistic categories
like keywords, and tokens relate to each other.

Dave is claiming that BNF only defines the syntax of a language, but
then Stephen goes on to supply some syntax that a BNF specification of
the language would not allow (even though Steven calls it "syntax"
which is what BNF in Dave's claim parses).

So which of you is confused?  I ask that in the inclusive (not
exclusive OR) sense.... ;^)  <-- face says "both".

Mark Janssen
Tacoma, Washington.