Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.albasani.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'handful': 0.09; 'happen,': 0.09; 'scalability': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'wrote': 0.14; 'language.': 0.14; '->': 0.16; '12:57': 0.16; '24,': 0.16; 'assumptions': 0.16; 'chris,': 0.16; 'does,': 0.16; 'jr.': 0.16; 'messy': 0.16; 'modules.': 0.16; 'win,': 0.16; 'demonstrate': 0.16; 'hire': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'looked': 0.18; 'app': 0.19; 'community,': 0.19; 'input': 0.22; '(in': 0.22; 'aug': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'portion': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; '2.x': 0.24; "aren't": 0.24; 'bytes': 0.24; 'comparing': 0.24; 'large,': 0.24; 'initial': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; '>': 0.26; 'compiled': 0.26; 'nearly': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'moved': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'largest': 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; 'code': 0.31; '25,': 0.31; '3.x': 0.31; 'everywhere': 0.31; 'fans': 0.31; 'forces': 0.31; 'libraries': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'text': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'everyone': 0.33; 'noticed': 0.34; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'transition': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; 'thanks': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'list': 0.37; 'project': 0.37; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'limited,': 0.38; 'needed': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'short': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'bill': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'entire': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'complete': 0.62; 'making': 0.63; 'income': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'sam': 0.68; 'useful.': 0.68; 'around,': 0.84; 'gains': 0.84; 'much,': 0.84; 'pain': 0.84; 'aws': 0.91; 'browsing': 0.91; 'wishing': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ccA2ncdfi8IBVNqDoZ8+a4FNCALq6D62hO5gV1ndaqg=; b=kPMfCSYMfCl6oxoW8pgVob9AA9Ym/TDorpbNj/pWy3IXnQmZOlJa1U1ltFk9KENzkZ uPUKE1SbZNyUjJUwTNKVr6+rrhk0URqh7goag1fcFHVMUVfKnLn+IPlSaDmfe9AZ8UJB n9J7SqcoBG0Qoz6qJHc66m8gmC0kcnKUZDx2Z2m/yfn1dRHCdbIDt2d7ATSAwkzDN80o R64zmyGiGo8YXrAMV8w4TOdM1bqV6J3f5DyXPwwKjeAm1gIdTPCRK6zeyxbO3c4bZQ5k B5URxT/srEgeGuQR8YpJA0jpsD2sYo4u3TYA0yjm2HZbdVM/HlhHWa3xs8bXuhN1RYtx lBYw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.137.2 with SMTP id qe2mr11383053vdb.11.1408937256218; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 20:27:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 22:27:36 -0500 Subject: Re: GO vs Python From: "Sam Fourman Jr." To: Chris Angelico Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51b161baaf62905016bc41c Cc: "python-list@python.org" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 141 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1408937263 news.xs4all.nl 2857 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57087 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:76961 --bcaec51b161baaf62905016bc41c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Sam Fourman Jr. > wrote: > > my initial reason for even looking at GO, was because, I noticed that if > I > > wanted to move my largest clients app from Python 2.x to 3.x it was > almost a > > rewrite..... and then when I noticed the libraries for python 3.x were > > limited, and some python 2.x libraries are not even making a 3.x > version... > > > > Well I got scared, Go started to look attractive, because your no longer > > comparing GO to the entire python community, it is GO vs python 3... > > If your Python 2 -> Python 3 transition was "almost a rewrite", then > either your code is making horribly messy assumptions about bytes vs > text everywhere (in which case the pain will happen, Py3 just forces > you to deal with it up-front instead of burying your head in the sand > and wishing "funny characters" would go away), or you did the > transition wrongly. It's not a complete change of language. > > And, what libraries are you short of for Python 3? List them! Maybe > they do exist now. Nearly everything important does, there are only a > handful of large/popular 2.x-only modules. And if you talk about > what's missing, you demonstrate the need for those ports, which might > be the impetus someone needs to make it available. > > There's way too much vague FUD about Python 3. Everyone who complains > does so with "oh, there aren't many libraries for Python 3", not with > "PyFooBar isn't available for Python 3", which would actually be > useful. > > ChrisA > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > Thanks your your input chris, honestly it was the end of 2012 when I looked into a large py3 port for a client. I wrote a very large web project on Cheetah, and at the time there wasnt a Py3 port... Now I get that back when I wrote this code years before, I should have chose something else.. I remember doing some browsing around, and the pooco people that make jinja2 were not fans of python3(I forget the blog post), I got scared because a very large portion of my income was based on a single client... So since we were having scalability issues anyway, I moved them to GO, and it was a Win - Win, the GO standard lib does so much, and the scalability gains we received over python were so large, that we were able to reduce out AWS bill so much that I could hire another coder. I really like python, and we use it a ton, but a python like compiled language did wonders for us when we needed it most. Sam Fourman Jr. -- Sam Fourman Jr. --bcaec51b161baaf62905016bc41c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Sam Four= man Jr. <sfourman@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
> my initial reason for even looking at GO, was because, I noticed that = if I
> wanted to move my largest clients app from Python 2.x to 3.x it was al= most a
> rewrite..... and then when I noticed the libraries for python 3.x were=
> limited, and some python 2.x libraries are not even making a 3.x versi= on...
>
> Well I got scared, Go started to look attractive, because your no long= er
> comparing GO to the entire python community, it is GO vs python 3...
If your Python 2 -> Python 3 transition was "almost a rewrite= ", then
either your code is making horribly messy assumptions about bytes vs
text everywhere (in which case the pain will happen, Py3 just forces
you to deal with it up-front instead of burying your head in the sand
and wishing "funny characters" would go away), or you did the
transition wrongly. It's not a complete change of language.

And, what libraries are you short of for Python 3? List them! Maybe
they do exist now. Nearly everything important does, there are only a
handful of large/popular 2.x-only modules. And if you talk about
what's missing, you demonstrate the need for those ports, which might be the impetus someone needs to make it available.

There's way too much vague FUD about Python 3. Everyone who complains does so with "oh, there aren't many libraries for Python 3", = not with
"PyFooBar isn't available for Python 3", which would actually= be
useful.

ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Thank= s your your input chris, honestly it was the end of 2012 when I looked into= a large py3 port for a client.
I wrote a very large web project on Chee= tah, and at the time there wasnt a Py3 port... Now I get that back when I w= rote this code years before, I should have chose something else..

I remember = doing some browsing around, and the pooco people that make jinja2 were not = fans of python3(I forget the blog post), I got scared because a very large = portion of my income was based on a single client... So since we were havin= g scalability issues anyway, I moved them to GO, and it was a Win - Win, th= e GO standard lib does so much, and the scalability gains we received over = python were so large, that we were able to reduce out AWS bill so much that= I could hire another coder.

I really li= ke python, and we use it a ton, but a python like compiled language did won= ders for us when we needed it most.

Sam Fourman Jr. =C2=A0 =C2=A0

= --

Sam Fourman Jr.
--bcaec51b161baaf62905016bc41c--