Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:not': 0.03; 'cpython': 0.05; 'memory.': 0.07; "subject:' ": 0.07; 'alternatives': 0.09; 'assumed': 0.09; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'bug': 0.12; 'jan': 0.12; '*only*': 0.16; 'confuse': 0.16; 'happily': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'looked': 0.18; '>>>': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'tracker': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'said,': 0.30; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'know.': 0.32; 'addresses': 0.33; 'noticed': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'agree': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'words,': 0.36; "didn't": 0.36; 'being': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'that,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'received:71': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'discuss': 0.62; 'address': 0.63; 'detail.': 0.68; 'wish': 0.70; 'inform': 0.78; 'discover': 0.82; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: 'is not' or '!=' Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:23:37 -0400 References: <87fvgt7c4i.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53F27340.90604@stoneleaf.us> <8761ho75gv.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <53f396eb$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-71-175-90-87.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1408487062 news.xs4all.nl 2875 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55443 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:76613 On 8/19/2014 3:05 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 19/08/2014 19:26, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> >>> CPython implementation detail: This is the address of the object >>> in memory. >> >> I really wish CPython didn't do that, or at least not admit to it. It >> does >> nothing but confuse people. >> > > I agree and would happily support your issue on the bug tracker to get > it deleted from the docs :) It was added to the docs because people noticed that CPython ids looked like addresses and assumed incorrectly that this is a language property. In other words, the point is not to say that CPython uses addresses - people already know or discover that, but to say that the addresses are *only* implementation detail. That said, I agree that it unfortunately *does* unnecessarily inform people who do not know that and probably confuses some who do not understand why they are being told something they don't need to know. We could discuss alternatives here. -- Terry Jan Reedy